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Old 10-08-2007
Tethys Tethys is offline
Eternal optimist

 
Member Since: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Beep…beep… beep - Fifty years since Sputnik.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_inKarlate View Post
Not unlike people who spout similar fanciful notions like:We will never eliminate disease. The elimination of smallpox has allowed for the rise of cancer. The quest for a germ-free environment has given rise to near-unstoppable 'super germs'. People are designed to self-destruct and make room for the next generations, and viruses and bacteria are designed to overcome whatever defenses we may come up with.

We will probably never eliminate hunger. While your premise of getting all governments to work together negates the fact that all vaguely recent famines have had a major political component, less hunger will generally lead to more people, which will lead to more food demands, which will be met if ending hunger is our primary goal, and thus we will have even More mouths to feed, and so on, until at some point we truly meet the saturation point of earth's food production (or exhaust its supplies), and we'll find ourselves with a Lot more people and a lot more... hunger. I did throw in 'probably' because if some sort of draconion population control measures are adopted in parallel, it Might be achievable.

We will never end poverty. Poverty is comparative. If you could wave your magic wand and give everyone on the planet a house with running water and a full pantry, a medical savings account, and a college education (and a couple other things you consider the opposite of 'poverty'), you would simply have college grads asking if you wanted fries, dopeheads letting their houses fall into disrepair, and people whose houses only had 1 or 2 bedrooms. While much better off, they would still be the new 'poor'.

We will never eliminate "etc". It is too much fun to use, plus can sneak in by way of its many aliases, "et cetera", "...", in some cases "blah blah blah", and so on. There are probably even versions I'm not thinking of. (Like the one I already slipped into this paragraph after I had made my 'comprehensive' list!) Just like disease and poverty, "etc" is a scourge that we'll be stuck with for a very long time.


Besides which, a lot of advancements have been dependent on, or at the very least facilitated by, war and conflict. Among other things, Sputnik went into space on what was essentially an ICBM, built over-powered to carry not-yet-designed H-bomb warheads. We're discussing this on an internet originally designed to maintain military and governmental communication even when many hubs were destroyed by such nuclear weapons. Modern electronics are based on metallurgy and materials sciences that trace their roots to the quest to build better cannons. (Or at the very least made some appreciable progress in the course of that quest.) The US space program itself, plus whatever technological spin-offs it may have engendered, were a result of the one-upsmanship of cold war non-cooperation. So while I won't go so far as to say war and conflict are overall Good things, they do have some appreciable upsides that a lot of people ignore.



Well, I reckon the role of the Germans has been underplayed in popular acclamation of the Soviet and US space program. In that sense, even Nazi Germany’s military endeavours had a beneficial spin-off.

I think there are positive and negative aspects to all natural and social phenomena, and indeed war and violent conflict have led to technological and social progress in world history.

However, I do not think that “conflict” need be viewed in terms of a violent confrontation between groups, or even in terms of a competitive economic model.

The dialectics of progress could come from what has always been a driver in human social and technical evolution - the struggle between humanity and nature. Thus, humanity coming together to solve the problems that faces the population of the Earth, the environmental health of the planet, and to surmount the challenge of space travel is, in my view, a “conflict” that can drive human progress.

Tethys
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