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Old 10-26-2007
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Evil_inKarlate Evil_inKarlate is offline
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Re: It's Official - Babyboomers Start Collecting Social Security

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Social Security incurred debt is no different than military spending debt incurred. There is no difference ... US Government debt is US Government debt. Shuffling from one hand to the other may look rather messy and be inefficient, but it doesn't really change anything.
Without splitting hairs, yes, you are correct.

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Please provide a precise argument. Just asserting "vaccuum" and "context" isn't substantive.
"Vaccuum" in this case is looking at SS only and/or the 'Trust Fund' only. It has a balance of $X on paper, and will draw down that balance from year Y to year Z, at which point it will officially be broke and need outside assistance. This seems to be your preferred context and everything you've said regarding this context is 100% correct, IMO.

The "in context" in this case basically accounts for the outside circumstances of the rise and fall of the 'trust fund', including redemption of the 'trust fund bonds', and their impacts and indirect effects.

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You do realize that every single western nation has a) higher debt than the USA, and b) larger boomer obligations ... how would present German level taxes and boomer obligations, that are generally quite manageable in every other western country, become entirely sufficient to cause the US economy to crash?
The US is not Germany, just as the US is certainly not France or the UK. To get to the circumstances you describe, we would need significant tax increases and a corresponding decrease in lifestyle. Americans already think our taxes are much too high, and seem to think the sky is falling if unemployment passes 7-8%; the reaction, and thus impacts, of a change like you describe could be severe.

(Tho thank you for the comparative info - It hasn't changed my position, but certainly softened it, and also reduced my personal level of concern.)

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Canada and Denmark are... Using budget surpluses to pay down the national debt ... are better able to debt-finance any 'boomer crunch' that may come ... This is good public policy.
Good to know Somebody's handling things the right way! Better make sure the kids learn Danish! (Or Canadian!)

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A Social Security tax increase accrues to the Social Security Trust Fund no matter what the politicians may do with the actual money.
Actually, there is a difference. If the US funds $10B worth of $100B deficit spending from a SS slush fund tax increase rather than T-Bills, I agree it's a wash because somewhere down the line, we'll theoretically have to collect $100B in taxes to pay back the debt regardless of whatever internal accounting may or may not be involved. But if politicians see that they can potentially use $10B of slush fund money to buy votes without increasing the official $100B deficit, and then do so, then our future obligation is $110B. Unfortunately, experience has shown the latter to be the more likely scenario.

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The problem is US passion for tax cutting. US taxes are too low to support US government services and obligations.
I'd say the problem is more one of greed and entitlement attitude - US government services and obligations have been allowed to grow to far beyond what US taxes can support. Tomayto, tomahto.


So I guess my implications of doom, gloom, and financial collapse are probably blown out of proportion, but we're still on the brink of a period of declining lifestyles (or hopefully just declining improvement of lifestyles). The sooner and deeper we can cut spending and/or reduce debt, the better off we'll be.
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