Quote:
Georgerufus
Most people in this country will earn a wage of atleast $17 per hour. We have startling inequality, don't think we don't, there is definently insentive to create value. Everyone in this country can afford to live with dignity. We have high wages and none of this inflationary sky falling has happened. Infact we a going along nicely and have a very happy, healthy crime free society. People are looked after and theres not much harassment of any sort at work.
The difference is everyone can afford to live, our poor are nowhere near as poor as your poor in the states.
I have to ask, what the hell is wrong with Americans ? Five dollars an hour is a joke.. its slavery you can't even make a decent living on that. In a developed nation.. what the hell... I don't understand americans.
To me it almost looks like a lot of you worship the ideal of the free market. I don't understand how you can detach yourself from the plight of the working person. Even 10 dollars an hour is not really enough to life off.
I've got nothing against progress inequality is indicative of growth.. but declining standards of living and a continually growing working poor are not. Neither are an abundance of sector service jobs.
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I love this utterly vacuous notion that people's earnings in the long-run are decided by other people, and factors out of their control. That they are just utterly powerless. This is simply not the case. In this country poverty is virtually non-existent amongst people who make the following choices which are 100% under their own control:
1. Do not have children outside of marriage
2. Do not get married unless you have graduated highschool
3. Graduate highschool
of the statistically insignificant portion of the population who follow those three life-choices who actually do end up in poverty, most of those are substance abusers (another factor totally within the control of the individual)
Most poverty in this country is also concentrated in our inner-cities, where liberal policies have been particularly pernicious in breeding into people a culture of dependency and apathy which has turned poverty into a multi-generational phenomena in a way it never was before in modern times.
Quote:
Georgerufus
Interestingly you made five bucks an hour in 1978. Doing what ?
29 years ago I assume you were young.
People still make 5 dollars an hour. Adults.
Consider increases in the cost of products overtime.
Doesn't that wage seem wrong to you ?
Its not a free market if companies have undue power over employees (which they do) and can keep wages low (which they do) its inefficient and unfairly benefits them. Its a spiral it took society centuries to get out of. Wealth of the ruling class does not indicate wealth of the nation.
Therefore it will harm society, as the brilliant shape of the US economy has indicated. You're missing out on a great deal of consumption that would lead to job creation.
I should probably find some papers but no one would read them anyway.
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The only people paid below $5.85/hour (the current Federally mandated minimum wage) are those in the service industry who get the majority of their compensation through tips in addition to their direct wages, and agriculture. Both groups dominated by either young part-time workers who are not primary wage earners for their household, or totally uneducated and lacking in skills neccesary to get any other employment.
Quote:
Americano
Free market is a term many Americans like to use in rationalizing government subsidized agribusiness, energy production, aircraft development and military sales while condemning other nations for not accepting 'free market' trade agreements. The declining standard of living is merely another issue of many to ignore when climbing on the government 'robust economy' bandwagon based on public and personal debt. The switch from industrial status jobs and benefits to low paid service sector jobs provides 'new jobs created' fodder for the robust economy facade. We have an aging population that will create a lot of minimum wage bed pan changers designated as health industry expansion and the trend to acquiring excess body fat requires continual expansion of the fast food industry, offering even more dead-end careers. If one's income exceeds $150k annually without disturbing capital, there are no complaints. The abundant US population living below the poverty line and as homeless persons without education are, in the words of many posters, merely whiners who could improve their circumstances if they actually tried. (sarcasm)
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First of all, a substantial portion of the population living below the poverty line in this country are the tens of millions who are here illegally. And forgive me, but I couldn't care less, they are still better off than if they were back in their own countries where they belong...or they wouldn't still be here.
Second, anyone who genuinely believes that all but the most irresponsible, uneducated, unskilled people in this country have seen a decline in their standard of living over any moderate time horizon are just plain wrong.
By almost any conceivable material measure, people in this country have seen steady long-term gains in their standards of living. When you are told that income has dropped since the 1970s, you are being mislead. Look at the percentage of "poor" people with multiple television sets, their average square feet of living space, % who own one or more vehicles, VCRs, cable television, etc., etc., all of these have steadily increased. Hell, even home ownership among the "poor" is up over a decade ago.
Things are great for hard working, responsible, industrious people in this country, they are good for most, and bad only by and large for those whose choices in life have put them in those circumstances.