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Old 12-03-2007
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: france
Posts: 5,154

   
Re: Do You Carry A Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

If you're going to pull the trigger of a weapon, it should be only so you can put a bullet into your target. You don't shoot into the air to scare someone or show them you're "serious".

The use of deadly force doesn't really differ from a civilian police department to the military. When a weapon is drawn, it's drawn for one purpose: to use deadly force.

There's also the concept of "escalation of force", whereas a person (cop or otherwise) uses the minimum amount of force to counter the force being presented. In my case, I hadn't drawn my weapon. I saw two switchblades, a butterfly knife, and a pipe. When I drew my weapon, that was following the concept of escalation of force to the letter.

The very sight of a gun should be enough to deter someone who's presenting a knife. No warning shot. no yelling of "I'm serious". The very fact that I drew my weapon should've told the assailants that I was, in fact, serious.

As they decided I wasn't serious, they continued towards my wife and I. Accordingly, I fired my weapon. I fired it not to scare them or show them I was "serious". In fact, I didn't even fire it to kill them. I fired it to stop them.

When you fire a weapon at someone, it's considered deadly force whether you hit them in the chest or the foot. It's even considered deadly force if you miss them completely.

The use of deadly force says that it'll be used to stop an action or to protect an innocent.

Shooting at their legs would've been stupid. It's a much smaller target, thereby increasing the chances that I could miss. A warning shot; well, that's just too stupid an idea to spend any time on. I believe the only people actually authorized to use them are prison guards.

No, I opted for center mass.

Adrien, I've was first trained in the use of deadly force while serving as a military police officer. Now, as a civilian gun owner, I've taken firearms courses through my local gun dealer, taught (in part) by the local police department. Some of these courses deal specifically with the use of deadly force.

My experience with the use of deadly force is, unfortunately, more extensive than that of the average gun owner. I'll probably live the rest of my life never again feeling the need to draw my weapon. But, if I felt that need again, I wouldn't hesitate; not for a second.

If someone is unwilling to use a gun to protect themself or their loved ones, they absolutely shouldn't be carrying one; there's simply no need to do it. I've only had that need once, and I'm glad I had my gun with me at the time.

Here's an article on someone who'd been met with only fists, but grabbed a .22 caliber rifle because his assailant was known to carry a knife. Nothing is said about a knife being used, however:

The Payson Roundup

The shooting was ruled justifiable. The assailant died after what was intended as a "warning shot". Even had the assailant lived, the force used is considered deadly force.

Doing a real quick search, I found two definitions on the web for "deadly force". They differ slightly, but they both contain the very important phrase "death or serious bodily injury":

That force which a person uses for the purpose of causing - or which he knows or should reasonably know, would create substantial risk of causing - death or serious bodily injury.

[That] force that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.

A quick Google search found this website, and I think it puts the argument in pretty fair perspective:

No Nonsense Self Defense

It refers to "deadly" force as "lethal" force, but I think there's little question that we're talking about the same thing.

This is the part that I think is important is this one:

Critical decision
You need to make a serious decision right now. And that is decide if you are willing to use lethal force to protect yourself -- because your life is on the line. Not threaten to use. Not "well it depends." Not "well if I have to". Nor is "can't I just scare him away by waving it around?" an acceptable answer.

Yes or no.

And if you choose yes, then you are accepting the responsibility that you will be acting with dedication and commitment to take another human life. If you ever do that, you will have to live with the repercussions and guilt for the rest of your life. And that is not easy.


The last sentence, I think, answers those critics who say people who would do such a thing are bullies or cowboys when answering the question "Are you prepared to take a life?:

Therefore a 'yes' answer is not an act of bravado or macho, but a rational, calculated decision to take responsibility.

I think about the one time I had to fire my weapon every single day. Every time I slip my gun into my belt holster, or slip it into its' shoulder harness, I think about it. I suspect I'll think about it every single day for the rest of my life.

I sincerely wish I hadn't been in a position that required the use of my gun. But, knowing that I did the right thing, I will never, ever, regret having done so.

I would love to contunue this conversation but, if we're to do that, you really do need to educate yourself on what deadly force truly is, what it means to use it, and the proper use of a firearm. Until you do that, you'll be in a position of ignorance on the topic, and that's certainly not something which will help move the discussion along.
Why not? I don't see why I would need any prior knowledge in order to discuss anything, provided I'm not totally stupid, which I don't think I am.

First, no two situations are alike, so what applies to one may very well not work in another. But saying that having drawn your weapon, you are then compelled to use it makes no sense to me. You may, or you may not have to, depending on how your assailants react to the presence of the weapon. Unless they have firearms themselves, which, as I understand, is not the situation we were discussing, you will have time to react.

Now, warning shots may be potentially dangerous to bystanders, I agree. All the same, it is possible to shoot at something that will stop or slow the bullet, such as a the ground, a tree, a car, or whatever.
As for legs being small targets, please. I've only fired a pistol once in my life and I feel confident I could hit a beer bottle out to 20 meters without any trouble. You are trained, it shouldn't present you with any difficulties.
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