Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewl
Im looking for the MLKs or the Ghandi's, or the Emily Murphy's. Apparently you think these people are extremists. And that the issues they fought for were just simple left and right issues. Your silent majority is uninformed, dispassionate, and the constant subject of advertising and cheap photo-ops and soundbytes from politicians and corporations who have become masters at deception and fraud.
|
Well I hate to break it to you but these people don't exist anymore and they aren't the people I think we should be taking national security advice on. MLK's method had the support of a government willing to legislate and a democracy to get his movement's voice out, even if there was violence against it. Gandhi said the British should've surrendered to the Germans and the Jews should've committed suicide so, um, yeah, I think i'll pass.
The rest of your paragraph backs up everything i've said about you and really puts you in no position to be the one to accuse me of hurling insults. It was you after all, who began insulting the average person (who you DONT know) and I reacted because of the awful stench of ignorance that came from such a statement. Again, you think you're a tyler durden or something talking about 'these average people, fuck them' but guess what? You're going on 3 years now on an internet forum with 9,000 posts. That's 3,000 posts a year! It's you that needs to get a life!!
Quote:
|
I come to this conclusion based on observation, experience, polls, voting stats, and just plain old reality. Actually i do think that the internet is a revolutionary forum for political action and information. If anybody paid attention to the the efforts of corporations and governments to limit and control the internet (essentially to stop it from being a force for fundamental political change, and make it a force mainly for consumption of entertainment and products) we could preserve the unique potential of the internet for a truly democratic movement.
|
Lmao, paranoid. Another crackpot who really thinks that one day the 'government' is going to shut down the internet or if they even have the power to do that, you act like the white house has a mainframe with a big sign above it 'teh internets' and an ON/OFF button.
You say that you come to this conclusion based on 'observation,' whats that mean? Experience, what on the internet? Voting stats, ah right forgot, people don't vote your way that means they're idiots. Polls? Do you realize that polls consist of a FRACTION OF A FRACTION OF A FRACTION OF A FRACTION OF A FRACTION OF A FRACTION OF A FRACTION
...of society, and can easily be manipulated and the results found depending on who you ask and where you go? So, you'll have to excuse me if your 'sources' aren't too impressive for backing up your argument that you're Neo and everybody else is part of the Matrix.
Quote:
|
wow, whats with the cheap personal attacks. My point, apparently i have to spell it out for you, is that we have completely saturated our animal instincts, dumbed ourselves down, and so we don't have either the motivation or the desire to enact change via political movements. You know, the kind of movements that brought us democracy in the first place, that expanded human rights to people of color and the female gender. The one that you dismiss as the acts of extremists and simple minded left/right thinking.
|
Actually perhaps you don't see that anymore because the movements necessary for such things are over now, and the civil rights movement has boiled down to a revanchist victimization campaign intended to get people rich quick and ruin careers through people like Al Sharpton.
Quote:
|
Its evidence of cynicism, indifference, and procrastination. And i never said democracy is failing (although it may be in economically and industrially developed societies). Im more concerned that democracy in our culture is stagnant.
|
What's evidence of that? You still haven't provided one piece of evidence back up anything you just said about 'the majority of people' however many you were referring to.
Quote:
Democracy in our culture is elitist. That is undeniable. Are you saying that George Bush is poorer than the Gores or the Kerrys? lol... yes im sure the Bush family is not elite...  WTF are you talking about? Poor Ross Perot is just a man of the poeple, able to identify with americans.... gimme a break.
|
Bush 41 outspent Clinton, Perot outspent them all, Bush 41 and Perot lost.
Dole outspent Clinton, Dole lost.
Bush outspent Gore, Bush won.
Kerry outspent Bush, Kerry lost.
So it stands. The richer candidate in the last 4 elections lost 3 of those 4 times. Sure you can classify Bush or Clinton as 'elite' or even rich but to say that family status or money alone is what determines presidential elections is stupid and by the way, you said 'indifference and cynicism,' again, this is coming from you, not 'average people.' But hey you want to stay in denial fine.
Quote:
|
And yes, im totally cynical about politics in this world. Only an idiot would pretend these people have our interests at heart.
|
You mean politics in this country right? Because you seem to be a regular apologist for Venezuela and Iran on here.
Quote:
|
Id like to see some evidence of the informed voter making informed choices about the direction of society. The last six years have been a joke. Even when the democrats were able to get enough people to vote for them they have refused to do what they were voted in to do. Its pathetic. And as a response to this fraud and cynicism the people do nothing except spend billions of dollars on garbage at thanksgiving, only to do the same at christmas, perhaps with some "reality" TV in between. Yeah...thats some democracy we got... Its a joke.
|
Well I tell my liberal neighbor I'm a republican and he thinks i'm stupid. But perhaps after explaining my reasons why I would vote republican he might understand it a little more and vice versa if he told me why he votes democrat, and I have encountered many situations like that in life. Unfortunately that is the first impression many get because they are so inundated with punditry these days that its that which comes to mind first when they think about people they disagree with, and the internet is what perpetuates this environment of intolerance.
By the way how do you know everyone's daily schedule and itinerary? How do you know what everyone does? And why should they be considered 'ignorant' for spending the holidays with their families? Jesus man what are you a test tube baby? Do you have a family, or even a job? Do you pay bills? Your responses here seem to suggest otherwise.
Quote:
Majorities of Bush supporters incorrectly assumed that Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (84%), and the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the International Criminal Court (66%), the treaty banning land mines (72%), and the Kyoto Treaty on global warming (51%). They were divided between those who knew that Bush favors building a new missile defense system now (44%) and those who incorrectly believe he wishes to do more research until its capabilities are proven (41%). However, majorities were correct that Bush favors increased defense spending (57%) and wants the US, not the UN, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (70%).
PIPA - What's New
Yep, it hardly gets more ignorant than that. Can you imagine, 51% of Bush supporters actually thought he favored Kyoto. That is pretty fucking stupid.
|
This doesn't back up any generalization about 'average people' nor does it state their financial well-being or whether they're 'consumers' or not. It is not that black and white, plus the link also says this:
"The poll was conducted with a nationwide sample of 959 respondents over September 8-12. The margin of error was plus or minus 3.2-4.0%, depending on whether the question was administered to two-thirds or the entire sample."
959 people. No location, no background, no nothing, says its 'NATIONWIDE' despite being below 1,000 people asked. Yet you call yourself a critical thinker??
Quote:
Democracy in the US and Canada is stagnant and sick. Absolutely.
Democracy in Venezuela is vibrant, maturing, and it is marked by strong participation at all levels of society. There is no doubt about that.
|
Hahaha, I sense someone in denial.
I love how this is your response to two accurate scenarios about government oppression of the media and voter intimidation in Venezuela and 110million people voting in the US, you LOSE my friend.
Ding ding ding!
Quote:
The only thing i will admit is that you appear to be one of the mindless consumers that spends most of their time in fantasy land. You have done nothing but display the exact ignorance im railing against. Thank you for being my prop.
Andrew
|
Well you said mindless consumers don't vote and would answer those questions wrong. So I don't count under your description because I do vote, I do work, I would know how to answer those questions, I do pay bills, I do pay attention to the news (obsessed with foreign affairs, at least 2 hours a day of magazines, books, or internet research). So I count as someone who disagrees with you clearly since you and I have disagreed here on the same forum where apparently the limits of your 'political activity' stretches to. So I'd say I'm more of a participant in this democracy than you, who just googles and posts their life away for three years.