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Old 03-07-2008
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Minnesota     Germany

Re: Germany Discusses Return of the Iron Cross

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I bet the experiences with german military both of you have made come from the cold-war era.
My experience with the Bundeswehr was in 2002/3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Training and discipline in the "Truppe" was far better then than it is now. During the cold war, officers and instructors were eager to keep the units in good shape, because war was possible. Now that eagerness passed away and the armed forces turned into a mess. That's why so many lazy fat-asses and useless noobs joined the Bundeswehr lately.
Aren't most members of the Bundeswehr still conscripts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
During my "Grundausbildung" (basic training), I noticed that most of the instructors (corporals mostly) were absolutely fine soldiers. Later I figured out that most of the officers did not only deserve, but also earn people's respect. But the mass of corporals, seargents and crews, especially those of the non-fighting units, was in horrible shape. Also, the spirit in the "Truppe" felt somehow "castrated". Many soldiers were interested in the history of the older german armies, prussia's, the Reichswehr and of course the Wehrmacht, too. But though their interest was strictly focusing on military archievements and absolutely harmless, this is something which they only wanted to speak of or discuss in private. Political correctness and not beeing militaristic are the two most important maxims a soldiers has to fullfill in the Bundeswehr. Publically expressing pride to serve is like outing yourself. It's like an unwritten law. The german society is anti-militaristic. People here do not want to hear ANYTHING bad from the army. I guess the people which has the greatest fear of the german army is the german people itsself. Not because we fear beeing oppressed by it, but we fear it might damage the reputation we had to work so hard for (in best case) or it might take our sons and fathers away (in war, worst case). But there is a "friendship" between the civil society and the army developing lately. Since Somalia, people more and more learned to accept that the Bundeswehr is becoming an aspect of our foreign policy.
Mabus, you have hit the nail on the head. Sadly, these are all things I heard some German soldiers complain about while I worked with them. Many really envied my fellow Marines and I, simply because we take the history of our service very seriously and take pride the fact that we are inheritors of that history. We are not afraid to let our chests swell when we talk about our history, or our accomplishments. The German soldiers of the Bundeswehr, as you mentioned, could not do anything like that and not get looks of contempt from some of their fellow soldiers.
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