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Old 08-08-2008
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Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 15,400

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Re: Obama opens mouth and inserts foot, again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
I think that's the symptom, rather than the cause. If you pull back and look at people on this board or in general when they argue over political figures, they could well be rooting for boxers in a fight or their favorite football teams. In fact, the level of discourse is often no different, with partisan politics being reduced to "What kind of dickhead could possibly like X, X sucks!!!" And, I think that a lot of people's opinions on politics are less informed than their opinions about favorite sports teams, which are out of necessity, often grounded in fact.

I submit that the cause of what you're seeing here is the natural conclusion of the American "frontier" mentality. That is, hyper-competitiveness, individualism, proving oneself, etc. Throughout much of American history, this resulted in exploration, innovation, bravery, pioneering, etc. But now, with Manifest Destiny fulfilled and most people living with two cars, a house, and 2.3 kids, there is nothing left to explore. But, this vestigial mentality remains, and it causes Americans to crave semi-gladiatorial sense of competition in all things, and our political process is no different.

Think about how the election campaigns go. Even the debates are set up as adversarial with "winner" and "loser" as prognosticated by the endless stream of pundits. Hell, they probably divide them into "rounds" and use metaphors like "on the ropes" and "knockout punch". It seems to me that a debate (and campaigns) ought to be more about hashing out sensible policy ideas than anything else, but for us, it's about picking a team to root for, and getting really pissed off if that team doesn't win. Just like if you watch your team lose a Monday Night football game, you knock back a few beers, angrily shove your wife out of the way, and head on down to the pub so that you can commiserate with fellow loyalists or get in fights with people there gloating.

And, because of this adversarial setup, people who lack education or political awareness can get in on the debate (this is also aided by simplistic wedge issues like abortion or gay marriage). It isn't even necessary to understand anything about politics or policy to pick a team and root, root, root for it. I remember sitting in a bar some months ago, and listening to this idiotic liberal woman scream about how "The Republicans" were trying to "keep her poor". I asked which specific policies she was referring to, and she actually asked "how am I supposed to know?!?" I settled up and went somewhere else. All you need to participate in the process is a strong, uninformed opinion, and to remember that the less you know, the louder you should be. This is the essential rule of US politics.

So, that's is where the insults come from. I don't think the insults you mention cause the level of discourse to be silly. I think it runs a lot deeper than that.
I disagree. I can participate in discussions about anything but politics with those who have very different views from others at the table. Yet I see none of the patronizing BS. Our group are too interested in the higher goals of coming to a compromise ofr even a possible solution. I even see more civility in sports discussions.

No, I see political discussions as the oddball. Too many are too afraid of being incorrect, too afraid of any compromise, too unfocused, too emotional, too uninformed and afraid to admit it, etc. I see the latter case only in political discussions - not even religious discussions (another one of those taboo discussions in polite company) as being so much more civil than political discussions.