Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Now
OK.
Now considering that Zionism is merely a movement which supports the right of Jews to self-determination in the Land of Israel. What would that make you?  |
Self-determination in an empty land would have been fine. Except it wasnt.
I dont know what that makes me. What do you think?
Quote:
|
It's funny, you say you recognize that Israel exists, but not that it has a right to exist.
|
What would confer a right to exist? Or what would that mean?
I can definitely say it does exist however. Because I can see it.
Quote:
|
And you say you don't want the Israeli people to disappear. But you proclaim that you are an anti-Zionist, which by definition means you deny the right of Israeli people to live in Israel.
|
I have no wish to have anyone die or be expelled, or live under tyranny, thats all. I deny rights that contravene other peoples rights.
I imagine everyone can live under a state that respects all its people, and doesnt have to pave over or take over the homes and villages of other people.
Quote:
|
So either you don't know what the hell you're talking about, or you're just being a hypocrite. Which is it?
|
Im sure youll tell us.
Quote:
|
You can't have it both ways. And please don't bother trying to redefine the term Zionism. Or invent new definitions for the word anti-Semitism. There are already existing definitions in dictionaries and encyclopaedias.
|
The aims and pursuits of zionism was never simply a free desire to live in peace with ones neighbours, but to establish a state for zionists and in spite of ones neighbours.
What I can do is accept the past to an extent, and try to find a future that finds reasonable accomodation for all sides.
Quote:
|
I on the other hand recognize Palestinians' right to have a state in Palestine with East Jerusalem as their capital. I believe they have a historic right to the land, but I also believe that Jews have a historic right to the land. So a two state solution where both sides come to some kind of compromise is the only peaceful solution. I believe a compromise where Palestine is established in Gaza and the West Bank, with East Jerusalem as their capital living side by side with Israel is the only solution.
|
Fair enough. Though one cannot accept the crimes of the past committed to create Isreal as somehow right or justified, if the Palestinians are willing to move on and establish a state in the west bank and gaza Im all for it.
Quote:
|
Even PM Netanyahu stated that he supports a two state solution with a demilitarized Palestine living side by side with Israel. Obviously both sides will have to compromise and come to an agreement about Jerusalem and the right of return. Both sides will have to compromise. Israel isn’t the only one that needs to make concessions.
|
Indeed. The Pals will likely have to just take some comp. for the right of return. Maybe extra land or money or something.
They shouldnt have to forgoe Jerusalem though.
Quote:
|
But what is clear from some posts in this forum is that some people who live in Europe and other places are even less willing to compromise than PM Netanyahu who they claim is unwilling to compromise.
|
We just read his statements and draw natural conclusions.
I
Quote:
|
t's really very amusing to see the same people here (btw not referring to you CHOCOBOT) who demand that Israel abide by UN resolutions, yet they refuse to even recognize Israel as a Jewish state, which is a cornerstone in the Partition Plan proposed by the UN. Those same UN resolutions that they cite time after time call for a Jewish state and an Arab state. Now people are suddenly outraged by Netanyahu’s demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state (which also ensures minorities’ religious and legal rights of course).
|
How can they abandon their own people living in Isreal? What happens when Arabs form a much greater number than they do now on land in Isreal that of course, they have always been on?
They've still to accept it as a purely Jewish state?
Quote:
|
So you'll understand why Israelis don't get too excited when we're criticized by such a bunch of hypocrites.
|
Youre criticised by your own people just as much, so there's no need to label us.