Quote:
Originally Posted by TSGracchus
I have, of course, read the Federalist papers. The thing is, the idea that the general welfare clause is a stand-alone power, or that it authorizes "unscrupulous politicians to justify any national government actions," is a straw-man. Of course there are limits on it; of course it does not authorize ALL possible acts of government, because the power to tax and spend is not a universal power. It does not encompass the power to pass laws with penalties attached, for example, or to coin money, or to negotiate treaties with foreign powers, or, really, to do any of the other things authorized in Article I Section 8. If it did, we wouldn't need a government; there are private citizens in this country which are wealthy enough.
So Madison was raising a straw-man argument in no. 41 for the most part. There is a real and valid objection to this clause from the anti-federalist side that doesn't depend on this straw-man, because, although it is NOT a universal power, it IS very broad in scope, and it DOES allow the creation of a very powerful central government indeed. Thus, I believe Madison was being somewhat disingenuous here. |
Disingenuous, really?
Well, here we go again. I do enjoy these debates, as you are intelligent, well read and courteous, but we are simply at opposite ends of the political spectrum, much like Jefferson and Hamilton were.
I agree with Jefferson when he said.......
"They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please... Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on National Bank, 1791. ME 3:148
You obviously disagree and here we are.
Because of the abuse of the General Welfare clause we have the war on drugs, we have pork, we have fraud, waste, abuse and mismanagement on levels never seen before. Some examples of overlapping and duplicate progrmas.........
342 economic development programs;
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130 programs serving the disabled;
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130 programs serving at-risk youth;
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90 early childhood development programs;
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75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities;
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72 federal programs dedicated to assuring safe water;
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50 homeless assistance programs;
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45 federal agencies conducting federal criminal investigations;
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40 separate employment and training pro grams;
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28 rural development programs;
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27 teen pregnancy programs;
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26 small, extraneous K–12 school grant pro grams;
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23 agencies providing aid to the former Soviet republics;
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19 programs fighting substance abuse;
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17 rural water and waste-water programs in eight agencies;
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17 trade agencies monitoring 400 international trade agreements;
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12 food safety agencies;
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11 principal statistics agencies; and
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Four overlapping land management agencies
LHI - The Top 10 Examples of Government Waste
BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WASTED EVERY YEAR BY THE US GOVERNMENT, all because of people like you who believe that the general welfare means whatever the government says it means.
You should feel proud.
Gee, I wonder why you won't tell me how many hours you have spent researching government waste?