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jpsartre12 · #95 (**permalink**) 07-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxture

Well spoken. The question however is if our friend from Israel understands what we mean. I will give jpsartre an example:

You resort to evidently biased sources, including war Greuel propaganda. Please study the following sources:

"US Army Uses Iraqi Children As Human Shields Again"

http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/...-as-human.html

"now the [US] military is using Iraqis as human shields on the streets and highways in an effort to protect themselves from attacks by the resistance."

http://blog.newstandardnews.net/iraq...es/000356.html

Well, those evidently are other pieces of biased propaganda. You would be justified to dismiss that as evidence of a US policy of using Iraqi children as human shields. Maybe now you can understand why resorting to such invalid sources only is harmful to your cause?

Nevertheless, since you are so interested in the question on human shields, hopefully in principle, here are some indeed reliable sources on the use of human shields in a conflict. You probably were not aware of the fact that if anyone is using human shields in the present conflict, it is the Israeli side:

Human Rights Watch:

"In the four cases researched in detail by Human Rights Watch, eyewitnesses described a night of panic and terror, including death threats, house demolitions, and wide-scale arrests. In each of these cases, the IDF routinely coerced civilians to perform life-endangering acts that assisted IDF military operations. [. . .] This report finds that the IDF is systematically coercing Palestinian civilians to assist military operations. This practice violates a fundamental principle of IHL: that of civilian immunity. It violates Israel's obligation to protect and respect civilian persons under Article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention,3 and recklessly exposes civilians to danger. The threats and coercion used by the IDF to compel civilians to assist them are explicitly prohibited under Article 31 of the Convention."

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/israel2/israel0402.htm

"In two of the cases documented by Human Rights Watch, IDF soldiers coerced children under the age of eighteen to approach the houses of "wanted" Palestinians. Children are entitled to all the protections of IHL, enhanced by special protections derived from their status as children."

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isra...htm#P176_25821

For much more, see the report "HUMAN SHIELD: Use of Palestinian Civilians as Human Shields in Violation of High Court of Justice Order" by B’TSELEM (B’TSELEM is the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories,founded in 1989 by a group of lawyers, authors, academics, journalists, and Members of Knesset. "B’Tselem documents human rights abuses in the Occupied Territories and brings them to the attention of policymakers and the general public. Its data are based on independent fieldwork and research, offi cial sources, the media, and data from Palestinian and Israeli human rights organizations.")

The B'Tselem findings are without doubt:

"During the al-Aqsa intifada, IDF soldiers have used Palestinian civilians as human shields. This practice has been most common during IDF operations in Palestinian population centers, such as Operation Defensive Shield and Operation Determined Path. The method is the same each time: soldiers pick a civilian at random and force him to protect them by doing dangerous tasks that put his life at risk."

http://www.btselem.org/Download/2002...Shield_Eng.pdf

The latest report on such Israeli crimes is dated only a few days ago:

"20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Beit Hanun"

http://www.btselem.org/english/Human...Beit_Hanun.asp

Since that seems to be such a general practise, it wouldn't be far-fetched to think that the same Israeli troops are using Lebanese civilians as human shields now that they are invading and occupying Lebanon? That is far more conceivable than to think that someone would use his own people, his own families as human shields. (Even if the Israeli troops have committed many atrocities, I would dismiss as war propaganda any claim from an enemy of Israel that Israeli troops are using Israeli civilians as human shields. On the other hand, I would find it conceivable to think that Israel's enemies could use Israeli civilians as human shields, if they had the possibility.)

I would like Jpsartre, who raised the topic on human shields, to comment on the Israeli use of human shields according to the reliable sources above.

Personally, I am disgusted by the use of human shields, regardless who does it. I already am disgusted by both sides - Israel and Hezbollah - in the present conflict. But since jpsartre is so clearly biased towards Israel, it would be interesting to see what he/she has to say about the Israeli use of human shields, and if he/she thinks that Israel is using human shields in Lebanon at this very moment.

First, make up your mind. When I used HRW as a source, you jumped all over it. Now that you found a passage that supports your position, it's acceptable? Isn't that just a tad hyporcitical?

Next, I never claimed that Israel never used civilians as human shields. In fact, I know that Israel has used Palestinians as human shields. The difference is that Hezbollah uses their own people, not the enemies. While I, too, think that the use of human shields is inhumane, there is a difference. Hezbollah built its military infrastructure IN peoples' houses just as Iraq did under SH. Isreal stored its munitions next to an Arab village as a deterrent, in one instance that I'm aware of. They weren't using their own people as shields.
Israel did that purposely to deter attacks. They weren't intentionally trying to draw fire. Hezbollah has done it to insure high civilian casualties in order to make Israel look like the bad guy.
As for your "sources" on Americans use of Iraq civilians as shields, you use blogs?

I purposefully stayed away from blogs because of their unknown veracity.
This one in particular has zero credibility. It asserts that US soldiers give out candy to keep car bombers from bombing their vehicles and uses the quote" "I'm going to probably buy alot of candy when I goto the PX in the camp. That way, I can hand it out to the kids. They'll be more likely to help us avoid things we wouldn't otherwise be able to avoid if not for them" as proof that they're being intentionally used as human shields. That's just plain BULLSHIT! The reason that they are handing out candy is to gain support from the kids so that the kids will TELL THEM if something bad is likely to occur. That's a totally different scenario than the one the biased blogger would have the reader believe. It's not an uncommon practice in any theater to try to gain local support in order that they will tip soldiers off about possible harm.

http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/...-as-human.html