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Originally Posted by Frank
I am open to that! You are probably correct about people not knowing about the main players in this debate. If you ask the average Aussie who Tatu Van Hanen was they would likely guess a part-Maori Afrikaner who plays for the Springboks! 
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I don't follow Union but I've never heard a part Maori playing for the Springboks, and I've never heard of Tatu Van Hanen.
Is he one of Jack Van Tongeren's mates?
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Originally Posted by Frank
Or most organisations do not want to fund studies that could end up leading to the conclusion that not all men are created equal. This would be a rather nasty blow to egalitarian multiculturalism. Just so you know I do not recall the Pioneer Fund ever cutting someone off for offering environmental causes for Intelligence Quotient deviations for information sake. As well the Pioneer Fund continued to fund Jensen, Lynn and Rushton even though their research illustrated that northeast Asians scored highest on the Intelligence Quotient tests by a small margin. So this is a hardly a white supremacist organisation.
Let's face facts studies that delve into human personality differences and measure heredity vs: environment causes can make general egalitarian thinkers uncomfortable. The fact that people like Fraser can face race hate tribunals for promoting a view based on this alleged 'pseudo-science' with truth being no defence speaks volumes to me...
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The problem with truth as a defence, what he has instead is arguably, as a good many of Rushton's peers are concerned, pseudo-science. The HREOC aren't in the business of judging on highly contentious academic issues, and George Newhouse can point to the dubious and contended nature of Frasers comments. Here's the statement that's landed him in the shit:
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"experience practically everywhere in the world tells us that an expanding black population is a sure-fire recipe for increases in crime, violence and a wide range of other social problems"
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This is a highly generalized and contentious claim to truth, it is not merely "promoting a view" as you put it. I'm pretty sure someone of George Newman's intelligence could have found enough historical examples out of Africa and elsewere where Black populations had expanded without a marked increase in crime, violence and other social problems, to swamp the HREOC tribunal with.
Also, given the highly generalized nature of the claim this isn't a quote Fraser can point out from an early 20th century text or whatever, which makes the following statement by his buddies:
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"Fraser has done no more than restate hypotheses offered for more than half a century by eminent psychologists and anthropologists at leading universities."
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..seem like a crock of shit too. Academic hypotheses, or ones worth their weeight, are rarely as generalized as the comments Fraser has dug his hole with, conversely they are almost always marked by conservatism, and hesitancy. The offending statement is nothing of the sort, and I'm sure George Newman had a variety of examples to choose from in disproving Frasers massively over-generalized claim.
In other words, if you are going to make statements that are going to offend some group of people, you better make sure you know what you are talking about, be relatively objective, and preferably back yourself up with credible research, not contentious, dubious ones. Alternatively, you should make it clear that you are merely promoting your personal view, not something "experience practically everywhere in the world" is telling us.
So sorry Frank, I must admit in further reflection of Frasers statement, I'm actually less surprised by the HREOC ruling, and less concerned with its ramifications for free speech in Australia.
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Originally Posted by Frank
I have read it all! I am aware of Brash, Gould, Turkheimer and all of their positions.
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Given the number of critiques I came across, that must have taken you a fucking long time, more than I will ever give.
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Originally Posted by Frank
But lets face it! If you are right and the claims of people like Rushton and Fraser are dubious pseudo-science and shitty theory to paraphrase Brash then lets forego the HREOC tribunals and open a debate on the issue! Should be a simple victory for the diversity-monger crowd if you are correct. I am willing to see such a debate happen! I am not the one who wants to shut the opposition up using tribunals and threats of court action.
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You're putting the cart before the horse. These issues should be debated in academia with some form of consensus reached before academics go public with claims to truth, not dickhead academics making outlandish generalized statements with media dickheads demanding impromptu public debates in innapropriate forums to decide the matter to save their dumb asses and sell a few more newspapers.
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Originally Posted by Frank
Yes, I would actually. If he has a genuine belief that his positions were true, that again would meet my personal standard of truth being a defence. If he truly believes that Rushton was correct then he made the claims in good faith.
If the HREOC could prove beyond doubt that he presented this in bad faith, At least I would understand the reason for a tribunal hearing. Personally I believe the HREOC should be disbanded so I do not support these tribunals period.
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Well, he's most likely presenting it in good faith. Unfortunately what he has done is make a wildly generalised, historically misleading, and racially offensive public statement on a controversial topic, while failing to check it as merely his personal view.
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Originally Posted by Frank
RON KAUFMAN
http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream...Q/pioneer.html
"There are precious few financial resources available for race research. Most big foundations have been scared off," says Rushton, whose controversial research focuses on the heritability of personality based on racial differences (The Scientist, May 14, 1990, page 17).
Rushton has been receiving Pioneer Fund money for almost six years. He says research exploring racial differences is only in its infancy, and so this small, New York City-based foundation remains the only place to obtain grants. Rushton says that when "political correctness" crosses over from the realm of organized discussion to inhibitory actions, such as a funding ban, all researchers should be concerned.
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There are precious few resources available for many areas of the social sciences, psychology, pro-multiculturalist projects included, and buckets of internal politics involved, he's hardly the only one. And the palatability of research findings has always presented complications for funding. Admittedly, controversial race research probably doesn't attract much of what is out there, but given that Rushton's methodology, lack of fieldwork and interpretation of other's work have been roundly critiqued by his peers, I'm not surprised.
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Originally Posted by Frank
Duffy did not call for them to debate he merely pointed out that they chose not to do so. I would agree with you if he said "The university did not meets it's obligation to debate Fraser."
If he said that! I would have agreed with you. But he did not say that and ultimately he was correct in his position and statements
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Merely pointed it out? Read between the lines Frank, the implied criticism of the usual suspects for not entering the debate is clear as daylight, he signs off calling for "less moralising, more facts" after imploring that Fraser critics failed to "argue the facts with him" when it is naive to think they could have, should have, or would have. He's a newspaper salesman.
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Originally Posted by Frank
Allow me to explain my position. The Australian ANZACS fought for a white nationalist dominion under its banner. In 1919 Prime Minister Billy Hughes declared to parliament that ‘White Australia was theirs.’ He even made a reference to the White Australia the soldiers died for in his speech to parliament. Of course this speech took place after Australia resisted the Japanese effort to place a doctrine of racial equality into the League of Nations charter at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference.
As well in 1941 Prime Minister Curtin made the proclamation that Australia was to serve as an outpost for the British ‘race.’
The Aussie ANZACS knew that they were fighting for a racialist dominion and nation. They had no reason to believe the racialist status quo of the state would change since the first actual ‘reform’ (If you insist on calling it that) of the Immigration Restriction Act of 1901 or the White Australia Party did not take place until two years after WWII. The first second reform came in 195o when Asian students were admitted to study largely due to the Colombo Plan. Non-whites were not even permitted to become citizens until 1957 and even then they had to have 15 years residency.
Even though it is true that I am not privy to the thoughts of Aussie ANZACS from decades ago, based on the above I believe it is fair to say that they were not fighting for the creation of a multicultural love state, they were certainly not defending one. Maybe I am mistaken but I stand by it.
As well try to understand the motive behind the article. I am personally tired of Australian anti-racists hijacking the ANZAC legacy as a symbol of their cause. So far they have hijacked the ANZAC legacy, Eureka Stockade and probably Preparation H will be next to support their bankrupt cause.
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Yesterdays events are always viewed in the flavour of the day, and yes the inconsistencies and are glossed over. What can be said though is a lot of Australian immigrants from New Guinea, Singapore, Malaysia, China, the Philippines, South Korea etc. are as thankful for the allied effort as us whites are. Because we helped these people be rid of their Japanese imperialist masters. We did more than just protect our white dominion, we directly helped our non-white brothers.
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Originally Posted by Frank
I understand this! If forecasts could not be changed or mitigating factors could not change the projections we evil WN would stop fighting as hard as we do!
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It won't be the militant WN herd who bring about the changes, it will be ordinary Australians. What I don't get is why your lot assume the many Australians who are not concerned with non-Causasian rates approaching a comfortable and colourful 10% will feel the same way as they approach the 25-33% range. Relax, because barring a massive, unstoppable influx from Indonesia in the millions it will never even approach becoming the majority you so fear it will.
Jerry