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Old 08-02-2006
Frank Frank is offline
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Re: Australian Academics branded anti American over research findings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
The problem with truth as a defence, what he has instead is arguably, as a good many of Rushton's peers are concerned, pseudo-science. The HREOC aren't in the business of judging on highly contentious academic issues, and George Newhouse can point to the dubious and contended nature of Frasers comments. Here's the statement that's landed him in the shit
Since the HREOC is not in the business of judging contentious academic issues how can they judge the motive behind Fraser's claims? If they did not examine the research how can they make such a determination? Answer? They cannot nor is it their mandate to do so because truth is no defence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
This is a highly generalized and contentious claim to truth, it is not merely "promoting a view" as you put it. I'm pretty sure someone of George Newman's intelligence could have found enough historical examples out of Africa and elsewere where Black populations had expanded without a marked increase in crime, violence and other social problems, to swamp the HREOC tribunal with.
Could have but did not to the best of my knowledge! On the other hand! One could argue that blacks are more prone to criminal behaviour then whites and Asians hence could be and have been a crime risk wherever they go...I believe the following was included in Fraser's article if I am not mistaken...

I emphasize at the outset that enormous variability exists within each of the populations on many of the traits to be discussed. Because distributions substantially overlap, with average differences amounting to between 4 and 34 percent, it is highly problematic to generalize from a group average to a particvular individual.

Nonetheless, as I hope to show, significant racial variation exists, not only in crime but also in other traits that predispose to crime, including testosterone, brain size, temperament, and cognitive ability.The global nature of the racial pattern in crime is shown in data collated from INTERPOL using the 1984 and 1986 yearbooks. After analyzing information on nearly 100 countries, I reported, in the 1990 issue of the Canadian Journal of Criminology, that African and Caribbean countries had double the rate of violent crime (an aggregate of murder, rape, and serious assault) than did European countries, and three times more than did countries in the Pacific Rim. Averaging over the three crimes and two time periods, the figures per 100,000 population were, respectively, 142, 74, and 43.

I have corroborated these results using the most recent INTERPOL yearbook (1990). The rates of murder, rape, and serious assault per 100,000 population reported for 23 predominantly African countries, 41 Caucasian countries, and 12 Asian countries were: for murder, 13, 5, and 3; for rape, 17, 6, and 3; and for serious assault, 213, 63, and 27. Summing the crimes gave figures per 100,000, respectively, of 243, 74, and 33. The gradient remained robust over contrasts of racially homogeneous countries in northeast Asia, central Europe, and sub-Saharan Africa, or of racially mixed but predominantly black or white/Amerindian countries in the Caribbean and Central America. In short, a stubborn pattern exists worldwide that requires explanation.


-Dr. Philipe J. Rushton - Race and crime: an international dilemma. Rushton, J. Philippe - Society, Jan-Feb 1995 v32 n2

It should also be noted that black folks tend to be overrepresented in American crime statistics as well...

For example in 2000 blacks made up 12.32% of the United States population yet consisted of 43.91% of the prison population. The FBI Uniform Crime States showed that in 2001 blacks made up 12% of the population yet were responsible for 51.4% of the nations murders. In fact according to the American Sociological Association more black men in America have served jailed time then black men who have earned degrees or served in the military.

Prof. Fraser who is well versed in these statistics had fair reason to make the comment he did whether controversial or not. Now maybe the conclusions are worthy of debate and maybe the causation is worthy of debate but I would say that based on the above he had fair reason and good faith reasons to make the claim that he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
..seem like a crock of shit too. Academic hypotheses, or ones worth their weeight, are rarely as generalized as the comments Fraser has dug his hole with, conversely they are almost always marked by conservatism, and hesitancy. The offending statement is nothing of the sort, and I'm sure George Newman had a variety of examples to choose from in disproving Frasers massively over-generalized claim.
Those generalised comments did seem to have some support as shown above? Maybe the issue should be debated? Oh and it is George Newhouse not Newman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
You're putting the cart before the horse. These issues should be debated in academia with some form of consensus reached before academics go public with claims to truth, not dickhead academics making outlandish generalized statements with media dickheads demanding impromptu public debates in innapropriate forums to decide the matter to save their dumb asses and sell a few more newspapers
There is no law that academics must condult one another before going public with their conclusions. If that were the case most research long exposed would be secret today. I know of very few scientists who completely agree with the views of their colleagues. What they can do is critique the exposed works and even offer to debate the works in question.

Second, You can insult these people all you wish, tell me they dickheads and accuse them of every ethical misconduct that you wish. I merely defend a man's right to offer a view in good faith without being dragged before a tribunal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
Well, he's most likely presenting it in good faith. Unfortunately what he has done is make a wildly generalised, historically misleading, and racially offensive public statement on a controversial topic, while failing to check it as merely his personal view.
Then if he made wildly incorrect comments in good faith he should be corrected instead of dragged to a tribunal. If done in good faith that would mean that he intended no harm but offered a conclusion based on his study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
There are precious few resources available for many areas of the social sciences, psychology, pro-multiculturalist projects included, and buckets of internal politics involved, he's hardly the only one. And the palatability of research findings has always presented complications for funding. Admittedly, controversial race research probably doesn't attract much of what is out there, but given that Rushton's methodology, lack of fieldwork and interpretation of other's work have been roundly critiqued by his peers, I'm not surprised.
Merely being critiqued by his peers does not make the man a fraud but if the man's views are so incorrect then Fraser should be easily vanquished in a debate.

However, it appears that Fraser's opposition are more interested in shutting him up then vanquishing him in such a debate. I am more then willing to see such a debate go forward...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
Merely pointed it out? Read between the lines Frank, the implied criticism of the usual suspects for not entering the debate is clear as daylight, he signs off calling for "less moralising, more facts" after imploring that Fraser critics failed to "argue the facts with him" when it is naive to think they could have, should have, or would have. He's a newspaper salesman.
I do not read between the lines I tend to stick with facts when possible and the facts as they stand support Duffy's claims...

Last edited by Frank; 08-02-2006 at 12:17 PM.
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