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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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dsanthony dsanthony is offline
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219
"reserved to the states respectively, or to the people"

And of course the states would also have to show a compelling interest.

The federal laws you are defending are not justified constitutionally, practically, or logically.
There is no "right" to do drugs, or to drive, or to marry. You'd have to prove otherwise with something other than opinion. YOu might believe there SHOULD be such a right, but it does not exist.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
There is no "right" to do drugs, or to drive, or to marry. You'd have to prove otherwise with something other than opinion. YOu might believe there SHOULD be such a right, but it does not exist.
I do not need any such right. I am automatically granted all rights whch are not expressly assigned to the government in the constitution. That is one of the bedrock principles upon which our system is built.
  #93 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219
I do not need any such right. I am automatically granted all rights whch are not expressly assigned to the government in the constitution. That is one of the bedrock principles upon which our system is built.
I do not need any such right. I am automatically granted all rights whch are not expressly assigned to the government in the constitution. That is one of the bedrock principles upon which our system is built.

Again, you are stating a personal belief which is NOT supported by law or history. THis is tiring. If you don't have anything new to add, I'm moving on. Arguing with "libertarians" is like arguing with medeival christians...
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
There is no "right" to do drugs, or to drive, or to marry. You'd have to prove otherwise with something other than opinion. YOu might believe there SHOULD be such a right, but it does not exist.
You seem to be of the opinion that individual rights are limited to those that are specifically enumerated in the constitution. Perhaps you'd care to divulge the basis for this opinion.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogo
You seem to be of the opinion that individual rights are limited to those that are specifically enumerated in the constitution. Perhaps you'd care to divulge the basis for this opinion.
The idea of "rights" does not extend into every avenue of our lives. The "right" to marry is contingent on getting a license and meeting other requirements. The "right" to drink is violated in many dry counties throughout the US. As a simple matter of fact, there is no right to drive, or marry, or drink, or shoot heroin. That is a dogmatic belief, not supported by law or history.

You (and your friends) trivialize the idea of "rights" when you try to extend it to every pleasure or vice you personally want to participate in.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
I do not need any such right. I am automatically granted all rights whch are not expressly assigned to the government in the constitution. That is one of the bedrock principles upon which our system is built.

Again, you are stating a personal belief which is NOT supported by law or history. THis is tiring. If you don't have anything new to add, I'm moving on. Arguing with "libertarians" is like arguing with medeival christians...
Try these two amendments

9. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

After reading these can you explain how my contention that "I am automatically granted all rights whch are not expressly assigned to the government in the constitution." is only my personal opinion?
  #97 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219
Try these two amendments

9. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

After reading these can you explain how my contention that "I am automatically granted all rights whch are not expressly assigned to the government in the constitution." is only my personal opinion?
Yawn... Goodbye. The earth is round, deal with it...
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
The idea of "rights" does not extend into every avenue of our lives. The "right" to marry is contingent on getting a license and meeting other requirements. The "right" to drink is violated in many dry counties throughout the US. As a simple matter of fact, there is no right to drive, or marry, or drink, or shoot heroin. That is a dogmatic belief, not supported by law or history.

You (and your friends) trivialize the idea of "rights" when you try to extend it to every pleasure or vice you personally want to participate in.
Those rights are inherent. Limitations of those rights are justified only when the government can show a compelling state interest. The only reason government can force me to get a drivers license is because the government has shown a compelling interest in maintaining the safety of the public roads and other drivers. That is true of every limitation on freedom which is not explicitly written in to the constitution.
  #99 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
Yawn... Goodbye. The earth is round, deal with it...
If you have no answer you could at least have the grace to admit your mistake.

Last edited by drgoodtrips; 05-01-2006 at 03:11 PM.
  #100 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
If you can't show me a good reason why something should remain banned, then it shouldn't.

That's a statement of your personal belief, not a historical or legal argument. I hope you can see the difference.
So, in your opinion, we should not have the ability to do anything legally if it is not a Constitutional right?
  #101 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon
So, in your opinion, we should not have the ability to do anything legally if it is not a Constitutional right?
It's on a case by case basis. Getting high does NOT rank up with a constitutional right, and anyone who says differently is confusing hedonism with freedom.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
It's on a case by case basis. Getting high does NOT rank up with a constitutional right, and anyone who says differently is confusing hedonism with freedom.
Should we not be allowed to have sex with a condom? What about strip clubs? How can you possibly justify banning an individual from doing something that does not harm others?
  #103 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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dsanthony dsanthony is offline
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon
Should we not be allowed to have sex with a condom? What about strip clubs? How can you possibly justify banning an individual from doing something that does not harm others?
Cities can set severe limits on "strip" clubs, if not ban them outright. The SC has ruled that laws like condoms, like rules about sodomy, are not "unconstitutional" per se, but unenforceable and has struck them down for that reason.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsanthony
but unenforceable and has struck them down for that reason.
Ahh... so you find it to be reasonable to strike down "unenforceable" laws, such as laws about condoms, sodomy, and drug possession. It took a while, but it's never to late to get on the winning side of an argument. Even within the framework of your desire to legislate your personal ethos and subjective caprice (justifying it with cliches about 'hedonism' and "if it feels good, do it"), you still cannot call drug prohibition laws reasonable - they are simply unenforceable.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2006
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dsanthony dsanthony is offline
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Re: What's the argument against full legalization?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips
Ahh... so you find it to be reasonable to strike down "unenforceable" laws, such as laws about condoms, sodomy, and drug possession. It took a while, but it's never to late to get on the winning side of an argument. Even within the framework of your desire to legislate your personal ethos and subjective caprice (justifying it with cliches about 'hedonism' and "if it feels good, do it"), you still cannot call drug prohibition laws reasonable - they are simply unenforceable.
Drug laws are absolutely enforceable. Ask the people in prison right now.

Lots of big words usually hide a weak argument.
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