When I see Americans (or any one else) making boats out of scrap items and trying to float/flee to cuba, I'll agree that you have quite the Xanadu there.

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In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot. ~Mark Twain, Notebook, 1935

We all have a little "troll" in us. A little voice that makes us rhetorical and sarcastic sometimes, expecially with regard to our strong opinions. That's fine. No probelm.

But this particular cut and paste troll?

Too much.

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I have not seen muslims killing anybody - where you have seen this? Definitely nothing compared with the genocide that the US Army has done. You must remember that the Iraq-Iran war was actually USA-Iran war - for this job USA hired Saddam and USA paid all the expenses.

I only know polite, civilized, well behaving muslims - but I have worked only only 20 years in the region as an European ... probably you know better.


>Chassissman: When I see Americans (or any one else) making boats out of scrap items and trying to float/flee to cuba

This time may be closer than you believe. Today, USA is a place where all the money of the world has been collected...money not as a symbol of work but a crime. The American way of living is not sustainable and in a new economic system anything can happen. For example the Iraqies have developed their system more than 20,000 years, and it has been proved to be sustainable. For people living in a traditional economy or in a new system as in Cuba - not based on shares or neocolonialism - there are many easy opportunities in USA. I would not use this as an indication of any kind of success - other way round.

Wishful thinking on your part. Anyone wanting to leave this country has always had that option and always will.

It won't have to be done under cover of darkness.

Of course, if you want to inject the "Anything is possible" theory as the basis for your opinion, go right ahead.

It is possible that Finchs will fly out of your butt.

Doesn't make it a credible possibility, though, does it?

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New York, Washington D.C., London, Madrid, just to name a few.

Well, is that because their hearts are full of goodness and light or because their military capabilities are less than ours?

Back this up. And have more than that pathetic little stuff where the CIA brought him lunch in Egypt.



Really? I find this hard to believe. You never heard any wishful talk of genocide directed at Isreal or America? Or do you consider this evidence of civilization?

[quote=daisym;823363]But I still don't know that you can call it out and out genocide. There are also US soldiers who have tried to do the right thing, and who have done their best to help the victims of this war./quote]

Absolutely, and I don't mean to imply that all soldiers are vicious, genocidal killers. I would say that most of them are good kids who just have the misfortune to believe what they're told by their superiors and their culture. And not all of them do.

What I'm afraid of is that if we don't start calling it what it is in fact (genocide) rather than what it's intended to be (exporting democracy or whatever), we will enable the continuation of the "boys will be boys" policy. I would be willing to bet that the Iraqis certainly don't believe the "boys will be boys" doctrine. I would think that it is their opinion that we should be most concerned with. Isn't it them that we're supposed to be helping?

Never mind then. I don't debate trolls.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow i have read alot of funny stuff here

i have read alot of different perspectives that have made me say HMMMMMM

but dude PAAAALLLLLEEEASSSEE!!!!!!

this is over the top for even the most zealot anti war poster

all you have to do is search on Google for terroist activity or alqueda and read of the carnage

in fact you can reach google from this site here is the link www.google.com

>Calvin: New York, Washington D.C., London, Madrid, just to name a few.

Why don't you follow news ... you cannot find news from these pages. There has been a full coverage on those events you mentioned.

What comes to 911 - do you know that you are not alone - there are 16 % Americans who agree with you:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...141006poll.htm

Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story - Only 16% now believe official fable according to New York Times/CBS News poll.

What comes to London (7/7 and the liquid case), there have been a big number of news in Europe about these. In the 7/7 case the planner of the plot was arrested - he was an agent hired by CIA and MI6. So you can forget this.
What comes to this liquid bombs - the whole case was revealed to be a complete fiasco. There was a group of muslims which have been explained that it could be possible to do this kind of attack - those who told were CIA/MI6 agents and they just wanted to involve such people to this in order to be able to arrest them later and accuse them without any reason. The whole story of making liquid bombs was a hoax - it is not possible. And those muslims did not have any idea to travel ... not even passports. Today, muslims should be very careful - if they hear anything related to terrorism they must escape or tape record what the agents are saying.

On Madrid I don't remember what was the case - in any case it is not related to muslim-USA conflicts. If you want, I can dig the documents.

So, please, dont accuse anybody on crimes as long as you don't have evidence. In Europe we have this principle. I understan that the cowboys must shoot first and ask then...but not in Europe. We are not cowboys.

Heres the sad part... If it wasn't for Castro, Cuba would probably be the most prosperous country in latin America, perhaps one of the most prosperous countries of its size anywhere. Unfortunetly its only source of wealth is the degree to which it plays the victim of "imperialist oppression" and buddies up to friendly types like Hugo Chavez. Much like Kim Yong-crazy and friends, the leadership (read : Castro) in Cuba has long ago hijacked the island nation's economy and brainwashed its populace into being in a continual state of denial. This cult of personality comprises the 2nd most repressive and closed regime in the world (www.freedomhouse.org). The populace is not allowed to voice any opinions contrary to "the revoluton", castro, the country in general, or anything else, so they will psycholigically be trained to place the blame everywhere else they can to justify their sorry state of affairs.
I do hope the Cuban people are someday (soon) liberated from their political, economic, and psychological captors.
Well, anyway, let the tortured logic of the extreme left flare up again, I'm sure they'll have quite a bit to blather on about regarding the crimes of everyone and anyone but the Cuban government against its own people.

Calling it genocide implies that we are killing them simply because they are of a certain ethnic or some other background. That is absolutely not the case. Civilian deaths are by and large collateral (accidental/unavoidable) damage, not wholesale slaughter because we think they deserve to die.

Saying the US is going to war for oil is old tired unrealistic mud slinging. We don't colonize places and appropriate their resources. (Colonization was a European thing) We buy oil on the open market and if one seller wont sell to us another will. If anything going to war interrupts supply. Russia is the largest oil producer. Saudi Arabia is #2 and I believe Canada is somewhere around #3 right now. If Saudi Arabia didn't sell to us, we could buy more from someone else.

This is exactly why USA attacked Iraq - there were no any other reasons - because muslims did 911 (actually it was an inside job) Iraq was attacked even if it was a wellknown fact that Iraqies did not have any - not any connection to 911. So this is an ethnic cleansing of 655,000 civilians.

Your oil policy is just stupid. First of all, USA is not buying oil - it is selling it (Bush's and many other companies). The purpose is to rob all the C Asian oil reserves to the hands of US companies. Kuwait and S Arabia already are and now Iraq (it was the first deal done with the US puppet government in Iraq to agree on the oil robbery). The reason to destroy Iraq was to use that country as a military base against Iran - this is now building up - only a new 911 is needed (but even it has been planned already - US army will destroy itself one of the carriers in Gulf killing 5000 soldiers and accuse Iran and the stupid Americans will authorize the war - this will happen soon)

I think its pretty hard to generalise about a group - and what you say is right of course Mrs M, however elsewhere Analyst has claimed he works in the ME, and to be perfectly honest, his assessment of the Arab behaviours and attitudes is much closer to my experience of the average Arab.

And it is THESE Arabs that are being killed by current US policy in the ME. It is also THESE ARABS whose life has been turned upside down, and whose already difficult lives have been further worsened by the US invasion.

It is not because the invasion is a success that there are more refugees leaving Iraq now than at any time under Saddam.

[quote=segep soch;823601]hmmm - I still don't think it can be claimed to be genocide. I think however that the US admin has to become more accountable. I have read several accounts where US troops have been cleared by the US, however the feeling on the ground was that they were guilty.

and when I see the kind of blind support on this board - LOL - a survey conducted by a well respected institution, which would NOT put its credibility on the line by allowing dodgy surveys to be published in its name is labelled as bullshit because the institution is in a democrat state! - it seems that the US government is playing to the home crowd, rather than looking at taking responsibility for its actions in another part of the world.

If it really can't be accountable, it should keep its army at home.