We have segregated ourselves by skin color and now some of us are trying to segregate themselves from people that are condemned by the Christian religion. I just noted that you have the Virginia flag on your posthead. Below is a quote from a measure on your ballot this fall preventing anyone but heterosexuals from equal protection under the law. Read it carefully please. Are you going to vote for this? This is one of the things in which people are culpable unless they actively try to prevent it by at least voting against it.

"This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage. Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage." Commonwealth of Virginia Ban on Gay Marriage

This measure is hate, pure and simple. There is no logical, rational, or scientific reason for a ban like this.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Mare, I think you fail to credit several parts of others' arguments.

1st) When someone asked you if you knew what "Christian" meant, they were refering to the hijacking of Christianity. You went on to berate them for being ignorant of the hijacking, but Ill let it slide

2) I don't know how often you go to church, or even if you do, but Im certain you'll find few pastors if any who advocate roving band of hooligans (are they the same band or are these isolated incidents?) to beat down gays. You'll find many pastors who argue against such outrageous behaviour. You'll find that their tactics are proving as ineffectual as yours.

3) This leads to my next point, about the "War on Christianity." In the world, 160k christians were martyred last year (http://www.gordonconwell.edu/ockenga...resources.php). Lets not pretend that everyone loves Christianity. Yes its true that there are majority of self-labeled Christians in the US, but what does that mean? Secular humanist culture is constantly attacking the religion. If you watch TV and movies, you'll find many more examples of sex, violence, and intolerence than you will Christian programming. There are many more secular radio stations than Christian radio stations. And, yes, there are Christian groups arguing against inappropriate programming. On college campuses, I know that more people follow a secular lifestyle than follow the teachings of Jesus. There are also college groups trying to remedy this. I assume that the same-sex marriage issue just became a visble and easy target (read: election year issue) which people could attack.

4) Which brings me to my final point. I think that you're soap-boxing for the issue is symptomatic of the Gay Rights Movement in general. Through the 1980s the movement spend a lot of time gaining visibility for its issues. Consequently, the movement has suffered in later years from over-exposure. If you asked the average person on the street, they would probobly say that there are more than ~6 million gays in America. Since gay culture has become trendy, mainstream media has influenced the spread of gay culture. As a result, gay culture and some misrepresentations of it make the situation appear greater than it is. Let's face it, more people watch Will & Grace than the 700 Club. That's not to say that gays ought to repress their culture, but rather that media has overexposed it.

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Hate is a Weapon of Mass Destruction.

I was silent on these issues for the first 50 years of my life and that didn't help. Now I speak out, I speak at Universities, meetings, continuing education classes, on sites like this, and any place else where I get the opportunity. Nothing has changed, Christians are still beating, raping, and killing us just like they have for centuries, they are still justifying it with the Bible, and apologists like you are still writing to me saying that it's not the "real" Christians that are responsible. You are not in a position to say who is or is not a "real" Christian since there are no universally accepted standards by which to judge a Christian's "real-ness".

I only know one (in my opinion) "real" Christian, a Mennonite preacher who talks the talk and walks the walk, and his worst enemies are the rest of the Christians in the area where he lives. You would not believe the storm of abuse this gentle man receives--including death threats.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

YoU are one very scary individual: Nothing has changed, Christians are still beating, raping, and killing us just like they have for centuries, they are still justifying it with the Bible, and apologists like you are still writing to me saying that it's not the "real" Christians that are responsible.

Your hatred and rage need to be addressed in your own life. It is sheer insanity. The fact that you are willing to express this level of ferocious hate on a public forum is very frightening. I mean that quite seriously.

What an idiotic post. Please don't tell me you speak at universities because if this is all you know about human culture than you are doing no better than spreading disinformation for the sake of impressing your own ignorance. Certainly you are just overreacting a bit.

I believe the OP was about an airline and the wearing of trinkets and cloth.

It is very easy to say that those you disagree with aren't true "christians".
I had and still have a good opinion of you and your posts, but that was just plain ridiculous. MareTranquility made fine points and countered yours; instead of debating, you used the "oh, that's so outrageous! I'm shocked!" tactic popularized by who-you-know. Put me on your ignore list as well if you want to... But let me remind you that, as MareTranquility said, it is fine to be a christian; but it isn't OK to deny the atrocities committed in the name of the Christ.

Just like it is fine to be a german but not fine to deny the holocaust or to say that those who perpetrated it "weren't true germans".




As for the OP: I don't think Tim understands the word "bigotry". The story is interesting; the line of defense that would most likely use british airways is that while the christian religion doesn't require people to wear crosses, muslims and sikhs are "required" to wear hijabs/turbans.

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Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

So, Tim, which part of this upsets you so? The beatings, rapes, and killings or the fact that I see Christian dogma as the justification?

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Convesations tend to ebb and flow, I have responded to the posts of others and to the ones directed at me.

You seem a trifle vague, exactly what is it that you are saying?

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

There is not a single word of truth in your post - just madness. I do not use the ignore list anymore, because I always read posts whether I agree with them or not - but I will not have discussions with you due to the level of rage, bitterness and hatred, combined with the slander and false accusations.

It looks like not only muslims tend to become violent when they see their religion being (constructively in our case) criticized ...


"Nah!! No muslim ever did anything bad! If one did, then it wasn't a real muslim!". Now, christians, imagine a muslim saying that; would he be convincing? I would think he is evading the issue of violence in his religion; and pretending it has nothing to do with it. I would think that, with such a reaction (closing his eyes), he is allowing the violence to continue.

I think the same way of christians who pretend that their religion has always did only good things.

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Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

You may strongly support the view that Christians are "murdering and raping" and rampaging thorugh the world, as Mare does - but you have to support those accusations with evidence. Otherwise your observations are worthless.

MareTranquility did it already to a great extent. In case you didn't notice, "Christians" in her posts did not refer to the totality of christians but to "some christians". It is not difficult to find, even today, christian skinheads. I think that MareTranquility is going too far by suggesting that nothing have changed; christianism have been largely reduced to the private/spiritual sphere, unlike Islam. However, some sects of extremists remain active and dangerous.

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Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

A I the only one who doesn't give a shit...

*chuckle*

That is your response? So you believe that Christians are rampaging and raping and murdering throughout the world, and that all Christians are cupable, as she said? (Have you actually read her posts?) You are strongly supporting her views, as well as her arguments. The hatred of Christians in those posts refers to virtually all - that is very obvious and very open.

If you choose to label hundreds of millions of people in this way, that is your choice. I wonder, though, whether you really believe this kind of fanatical lunacy.

She said that only the negationnists among the christians are culpable; or those that are practicing the acts she described (of course).
What you just wrote makes no sense whatsoever. You are invited to reread my post.

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Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)