Let me start with material from another thread.

Here's a posters take on Pelosi; the rabid liberal House minority that can possible take the majority seat. Here's the enchilanda with extra cheese:


First off, is this poster not blowing this completely out of proportion?

Is there really an agenda to TAKE their money? He almost makes it sound like we are going to liquidate the rich. Is it just me or is this not some silly overhyped nonsense from the get go?!

I responded:

I was quickly met with more overhyped reactionary thought:

History of what? We're asking the rich along with the rest of Americans to participate in a project called "America".

Does America come down to the sigularity of the individual? Are we not a UNITED nation or are we dog eat dog animals?

This is not my characterization. It's his.

Who ever said the rich work their asses off?! The majority of the rich in America are land owners. That's it! Land owners. If you own land, you're rich.

It has absolutely nothing to do with working your ass off. I know honorable good hard working people in plastics factories sweating and working their asses off for minimum wage.

Are you not giving a firm slap to the face of blue-collar America?! Because that's who mostly comprise of the poor, the struggling, the unfortunate.

This really upset me because this was uncalled for and completely unfair.

I've been reading this poster for a good while and many like him. They claim they are patriots, they claim they are honorable, they claim they are good Americans. Most of their time spent on this forum has been to (I'm sorry, I can't find a better choice of words) shit down necks of the majority of the American people.

How many Americans are rich? How many are poor? Is he saying that most Americans are just stupid people? Does anyone agree with this assertion? Because a majority of Americans are poor and the rate for the number of Americans joining that club is growing fast.

Or the recipient of INCREDIBLE luck if you inherit millions. And let's be honest. That's what the American rich are - a dynasty. Once they have the money, the money stays. Not everyone can afford college, not everyone can make it out of the projects and make it big time.

Let's take a look at the statistics. What do you think you would come up with if you took a tally of today's rich and figured the percentage of them came from already rich backgrounds? How many people that came from poor families stay poor?

It's not about who works the hardest. That's a small marginal number. Rags-to-riches stories are nothing but a drop in a bucket compared to how many inherited their riches.

That's just the reality of it. Hard working Americans that make it big time is a fantasy. Yes, it does happen, but usually we can count them all every year without needing more than ten fingers.

Pelosi's voting record doesn't scream give away the riches money to the poor. That's not what her voting record says.

You want to know who is getting away with murder? The rich because of George Bush.

Do you know what the Dow Jones is? It's a measurement of corporate wealth. It has nothing to do with the wealth of the American people or the overall economy. It just reflects how much in the corporate executive wallets.

Do you know that layoffs improve the dial on the Dow Jones? Ya, it does. Layoffs make corporate wallets fatter.

And do you know how the tax cut for the rich is paying off for Americans?!

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...uxury1030.html

I mean let me be frank once more:

Are you fucking kidding me?! Is this how tax cuts for the rich is paying off for America? Yeah! There's that untaxed money going right back to the people. Yes, yes, when Bush and you say that tax cuts for the rich will pay off for all Americans, I assume this is how.

You're disconnected with reality. You think we're going to rob the rich when all we do is ask them to participate in a little thing called AMERICA!

This thing is so blatent and insulting that what this poster said is almost taken like a direct slap to my face and to all Americans.

I'm sure all those riches the oil executive get from ...

I mean they are not making a profit, they are making a killing! Do you need a blimp to fly over your house scrolling the words "The rich are getting away with murder".

You are so concerned about money being stolen from the rich? Are you absolutely positive that the rich have to worry this day and age?

I thought the Democratic party platform included the welfare-state economic model of promoting the general welfare?

Start a new thread. You chose an entirely different topic. You are derailing the subject. I made a post and I'd like you to address it. Don't just start a new subject. If you want to address this different matter - create a thread for it.

If you do, link evidence of what you're saying, I'll participate. But not here.

Well, there is actual data here.
For a large chunk of the population (WWII veterans) college was free, and home ownership was subsidized.
This created a large number of college graduates, increased earnings, and increased home ownership.
It seemed to work fine for that generation, why not try that again?

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

Imma say this....some people just get dealt a fucked up hand in life. Some people are presented the fruits on a silver platter with no effort and some people put in an effort and work but only to get rasins. Some people diserve to get what they get and some dont and i feel sorry for the people that dont.

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America’s political correctness is a disease that will bring down our once fine nation.

Have you ever heard of a concept called taxes? It is, in essence, to TAKE money from those who have money, under threat of violence, since the Government is the only one allowed to use force (with some exceptions).

__________________
President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that?
Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add.

You know what? on issues like this the left loves to point fingers and say "the right wants to lower taxes, they hate the poor!!" but the fact is the dems spend so much money on dumb shit its pathetic and almost NONE goes to the people who truely need it and the people they promised it to.

feeding homeless people is far more important then researching gay eskimos.

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America’s political correctness is a disease that will bring down our once fine nation.

When you make crap up, you come off as desperate.

what world do you live in? coffee land and CNN?

Have you ever seen a homless squat/circle/gang in real life? NO?

__________________
America’s political correctness is a disease that will bring down our once fine nation.

Lower Wacker Drive Chicago.

Walk down there...

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America’s political correctness is a disease that will bring down our once fine nation.

Hey man I'm from Segundo Barrio (2nd ward) in El Paso, TX. I lived in Mexico with distant family in the lomas of Juarez, Mexico.

If you think stuff is screwed up in your neck of the woods, try Mexico.

Or just El Paso, TX on Piasano Rd along the border where they roll boulders on the street to jack stopped cars.

In Juarez there's a rapist still on the lose that has been killing women that travel on foot through the desert to get to work at the maqiladoras and end up naked and beaten dead in the desert.

Yeah, what about your neighborhood? Oh yeah, it's all about you pointing at people and calling them lowlives.

Cool - I consider this thread a compliment!

I am the evil culprit who spews out such filth that people should take responsibility of their own lives and not depend on others to provide for them.

The horror of it all!!!

Nancy Pelosi (things conform left out) has publicly stated that the most important things to increase spending on is:

Housing Projects
Medicaid
Welfare
Job Training programs

OK - conform, here is a challenge for you...you show me how welfare and ghetto housing projects helped the poor.
And I will show you how it created a massive dependent society with the highest crime rates, murder rates, teenage pregnancy rates, school drop out rates etc, etc, etc, - just about EVERY measure of what can be wrong in a society is greatly concentrated in welfare states.

Sorry, I do not subscribe to the idiocy that to help the poor is to sweep them under the rug into crowded public housing - this is exactly what elitist liberals like Pelosi want to do - place the poor all together, give them handouts so they can feel good...poor are not children.

Well now I'm curious Iam. Which are these states you're talkng about that have such a high crime rate due to welfare??
I think you have a wrong understanding of welfare. Welfare is not (or should not) be a system that brainlessly redistributes money from the rich to the poor, only to get rid of the poors.
If a welfare system destroys the appeal of each individual to work hard than the system is completely fucked up and contraproductive.
Welfare should encourage the individual to work hard, it should encourage people to study and learn, while providing a safty net if you fall and fail.
For example in Switzerland you'll receive a decent payment if you're unemployed, but only under the condition that you write a certain amount of applications each month. If you fail to prove that you wrote these applications, you won't receive any unemployment aid anymore. So the unemployment payments are directly linked to a performance you must provide, thus the individual actually gets encouraged to find a job, while protecting that individual from complete misery. That's a good form of welfare.
Another example is fundings for study. I'm in my last year of study now.During my study-time I received a decent amount of funding from the state. Had the state not supported me during this time I could not have studied, impossibly, I couldn't have afforded it. I studied now nearly 4 years, there was hardly any spare time to work besides school. Without these state fundings I would be an uneduacted normal worker today. These fundings have actually encouraged me to eduacate myself and learn. In the future when I have my own income I'll pay taxes that will be used to help other young people that want to study, and I will gladly pay that bill.
This is, in my oppinion, a good form of welfare.
I have no idea what welfare in whatever country you are talking about Iam, welfare can be contraproductive, but it's in no way justified to say that welfare is generally bad.
Whatever, you offered to show evidence how welfare is responsible for high crime rates, if you desire I will show you some european countries with much welfare that have a much lower crime rate than the USA.

The "Welfare State" is a term used here in America that was given to the society that was created by welfare and public housing built in the 60's.

Welfare, at least here, was meant to be (as you describe) a temporary safety -net - but that is not at all what happen. Welfare became a paycheck for millions for doing absolutely nothing. It created a "state" or society of 100% dependent people all shoved together in low-income housing that was built in areas where there was little to no manufacturing to get jobs.
It was a HUGE mess that, after now near 40 years, is still a major, major problem.

It's all because you debate the world in you head, that's why you got yourself arguing crap that doesn't exist.

We don't say take money from the rich and give to the poor. We say all Americans should invest in America. That doesn't mean take money and write blank checks to poor people.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard and that's the foundation of your argument is to mischaracterize the "welfare state".

What I advocate for is social programs that will ASSIST unfortunate people and help them get on their feet so they have a better chance at becoming a productive citizen of the United States. i.e. job training and literacy programs etc. etc.

You argue the point on a false perspective that all we want to do is take money to the rich so the poor can pick up free checks. Well that isn't it.

Now you will come back and respond with more mischaracterizations.

Education and social assistance programs (NOT FREE CHECKS TO PASS OUT) mitigate crime. Free checks to the poor doesn't mitigate crime and that's how you hope to argue this topic because it's the only way you'll have a leg to stand on.

So forgive me for swiping that falsehood from you because what you assert simply isn't so. Period.