Gakk -k - k

Some of my relatives ate some nasty shit too. My mom always dug pickled damn pigs feet. Gad, why anyone would even think to EAT such a thing is beyond me.

...."Hmmmmm, lets cut those off pickle 'em and eat 'em."

What craziness

All this reminds me of that funny movie "The road to Wellville" Where the Kellogg guy talks about the sin of Onan and how it leads to a "flagpole on your grave". Funny stuff.

Oh come on. That's ridiculous.


"New information is coming out all the time" is one way of saying there is currently no real definitive information. Sure there's lots of studies and theories tossed about, but no definitive proof that homosexuality is physiological and not a choice. But before you scratch my eyes out, let me stop and admit there's no definitive proof that it isn't. I'm not here to insist that the basic homosexual desire is a choice. You misunderstood me, and I admit it may be because I worded myself poorly.

Look, let me rephrase what I said. I said homosexuality is a choice. But it would have been more accurate for me to say that a homosexual lifestyle is a choice. Argue all you want that there could be a physiological reason for one's homosexual desire, I'm not here to dispute that. But what these two men were discriminated against for was not a mere attraction to those of the same sex. They were refused service by this lawn company because they were a gay couple. It was their lifestyle, not their sexual preference that the business owners did not approve of and therefore did not want to do work for them.

Therefore, as was my original point, your question of whether it would have been OK if the couple was black was not a fair comparison, since people don't choose the color of their skin. People however do choose life partners.

If you're so extremistly pro-gay that you are unable to admit there's such a thing as 'homosexual behavior," that is by definition bigotry.

MareTranquility, this answers to a couple of your statements as well.


They refused service to a homosexual couple. That hardly qualifies them as "gay bashers."

You apparently don't know much about the bible. There are condemnations of homosexuality both in the old and new testament. And the new testament isn't all Christ teachings. In fact, the only teachings of Christ are found in the first 4 books and even then the books themselves are not written by Christ, but are rather accounts of the life and ministry of Christ by people who walked and talked with him.

But again Christ did teach and preach FROM the Old Testament. And he taught obedience to God's precepts found in his word. He didn't really preach tolerance per se. but yes he did teach love.

You are projecting hate when you speak of "Christians using Christ for their hate agenda..."

I didn't say gays are haters. I only say that it's foolish to hold to stereotype that no gays hate.

Not true. This is just classic Christian bashing.

I fail to see how it is Christian bashing when homosexual people are disenfranchised in this country by laws based on Christian religion. The Christian majority passed those laws, didn't they? And on the basis of their religious beliefs? Sodomy laws that were selectively enforced to prosecute gay people when it is well know that heterosexual people also engage in activities that fall under the rubric of "sodomy"?

Transsexuals are also targeted by the Christian community even though we are not homosexual and being trans has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Besides which there is nothing in the Bible about transsexuals--not a word--so it feels like hate when Christians attack us. Silly me, when I moved to the town where I currently live I was invited to attend several churches--until they found out I am a transsexual--and then I was disinvited despite the fact that no one single preacher could cite a scripture condemning tran-people. It's bigotry, isn't it? What would you call it?

You think I'm Christian bashing, let's discuss it. Present your case.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

. "Silly me, when I moved to the town where I currently live I was invited to attend several churches--until they found out I am a transsexual--and then I was disinvited despite the fact that no one single preacher could cite a scripture condemning tran-people. "

Yes, kicking people out of a church is real Christian huh?

Have you tried the United Church of Christ? I am a member there and we are friendly. Try the website stillspeaking.com

Oh, so laws passed by the majority in a country with a Christian majority are by default laws passed by Christians? No, they are passed by the country. So do you hate America too?

And sodomy laws are basically not enforced today. They're just in a pile of other out-dated unenforced laws like no spitting on sidewalks or how in Illinois it's "forbidden to fish while sitting on a giraffe's neck."


I'm sorry for your mistreatment by some Christians. Perhaps that brings some understanding to your bitterness.

Look, of course some Christians, or people claiming to be Christians, have done horrible things. No question this sadly includes mean treatment of homosexuals. But when you as a homosexual (or sympathizer or whatever you are) are so blinded as to start putting blame for atrocities on one group, you cannot be reasoned with. Some are even to the point of denying the possibility that the group for which they sympathize cannot and does not possibly ever do anything mean or wrong. Then they wind up saying things like "it must have actually been a homophobe faking being gay who did that."

You must not be familiar with the tactics of Karl Rove if you think that homophobic people would not go so far as to call that company and say ghastly things.

As far as I know the only people in this country with a organized, concerted campaign against homosexuals are all Christian. Find me another group and I will include them in my diatribes.

No place in my post did I say that gay people do not do bad things, but any atrocities I attribute to Christians will be ones that they have committed: the Inquistion or the Crusades or the witch burnings across Europe. If you are going to discuss with me then please stick to the things I say.

One thing you might consider doing is defining who is and isn't a Christian. I simply go by what people tell me, and if they claim to be a Christian then I assume they are since I'm not in a position to contradict them. But bear in mind that there are more than 2500 sects of Christianity operating in the world today so any definition you come up with will have to be fairly broad, for instance on the KKK website they announce that one must be a born-again Christian to join them.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

You have to remember that some saw it normalized in the 1960’s from a sexual disorder treatable though therapy.
If you have nothing else, anyone could take there fetish into a livable fantasy.

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

There is no reason for the couple to have been provided service. They would only have been doing the yard, not moving in.

As to the death threats and what not that came later, that is equally bad. Sue the company and boycott them. Overresponding to their discrimination just makes them look worse.

I never said they won't. But that's the difference between myself and some other people. Most often it seems to me that people who are in support of gay agendas think it inconceivable that a homosexual would do something mean, hateful, or discriminating. Your first post directed to me was suggestive that you are one of these people.

You said:
"I find it interesting that you attribute "hate" to others who have never harmed you, never passed laws to disenfranchise you, never discriminated against you, and who have never condemned you to death based on their religious beliefs..."

I am sticking to what you said.


That's a very complex issue. I don't think it's worth wasting too much time trying to pin it down here. But basically there are people who claim to be Christian and people who truly are Christians. Sometimes, the people who claim to be truly are, and sometimes they're not. To be truly Christian, one must have come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. They must be born again out of repentance. There's no visible proof that any one is or isn't a true Christian, only their profession of faith. I don't want to go much farther on this thread about all that. It's a sure way to get way off-topic.

But let me ask, how come when someone claims to be a homosexual (or supporter) and makes hate speech or does a horrible thing you seem to want to be quick to suggest that they are not really what they claim to be, because homosexuals "never harm," etc? Yet then why do you then take at face value when someone claiming to be a Christian does something bad? There appears to me to be a biased approach here.

I'm right back to the same position on this.

I think it is, or should be their right to refuse to work for the Gay couple.

just as it is the couples right to advertise the fact that they were discriminated against,

and then, in turn, it is the Business' right to lose income and popularity as a result,

and in my humble opinion, and desire, To possibly go broke.

How many thousands of gay people have beaten or killed because of Christian religious bigotry? I don't know either, but I know it's a lot. Christians have a terrible history of violence against practically everybody including other Christians--it was Christian persecution of other Christians that drove people to settle in America.

On a personal note, I know exactly ONE Christian who is actually following the teachings of Jesus, he has renounced violence, he advocates love and forgiveness for everyone, he speaks against war, and he struggles to love everyone as himself. You know which group gives this good man the most grief? The Christian community in the valley where he lives.

Do I distrust anyone calling themselves a Christian? Nope, I watch what they do and say--Know ye them by their works. On this site I read what people claiming to be Christians write and they almost NEVER quote Jesus, they almost never advocate any of the teachings of Jesus. What am I supposed to think?

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

I feel pretty much the same way. But when I say it, I get labeled a Christian basher. The label sticks because a few folks around here mention it as often as possible. I see a lot of people like your fine self post the same sorts of thoughts I have on the subject and yet don't get the same label. I'm glad, yet mystified. I wish some so called Christians would study Jesus a little harder

Mare, you've made some good points. I still don't think we see eye to eye, but I've argued this with you as far as I want to, and as it is a tangent to the original topic of the thread, I want to leave it alone now.

I do want to clear something up that I think got confused. If you go back and read my statements to which you first addressed, you'll see that I did not ever say that gays are the haters, all gays hate, or anything of the like. Here's what I said:
So, it was "extremist left wing Christian-bashing liberals" are who I was criticizing as haters, not gays.
I think maybe your mix-up came because I made another point that it's a stereotype to suggest that homosexuals are by the nature of being such, more tolerant or loving or better people. I still stand by that. As any homosexual would probably want recognized, gays are people too. Whether I approve of their lifestyle or not, they're human beings like you and me. And to disregard their human nature is not any more fair than to go chaining them to fences and beating them, now is it?

And you fit this into your opposition to gay marriage how?

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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008