There have been a number of threads dealing with homosexuality that also mentioned transsexuality, but what actually got discussed was almost exclusively MALE HOMOSEXUALITY because that seems to offend a lot of men even though a vast majority of those same men find female homosexuality quite erotic.

Why is it that transsexuals get discriminatory treatment in this country when transsexuality isn't about sexual orientation? Transsexuality is a birth defect that has been successfully treated by the American Medical Association for more than 30 years now. Why is a birth defect condemned by the religious folks and discriminated against in the law? Is there some rational basis for this? There can't be any religious basis for it since there isn't anything in the Bible about transsexuals.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

What discrimination do trannys get that homosexuals do not?

They SHOULDN'T get any discrimination at all, should they? For a birth defect?

Many of the laws against discrimination list sexual orientation specifically but do not mention gender presentation and this has been narrowly defined by the courts to say that transsexuals are not covered. An example would be a person who drove truck for Winn-Dixie, he had done so for nearly two decades and had an excellent work record. He was fired for cross-dressing during his free time because the company said that if people found out that it would reflect badly on Winn-Dixie. The courts finally upheld the firing because they said that transsexuals are not mentioned in the law and thus are not covered by it.

Another example would be a transsexual (male to female) who is in the process of transitioning under the aegis of the AMA guidelines which require living one full year in the gender of choice before being allowed to get sexual reassingment surgery. I had to live as a female full-time for one year, earning my living, and passing in society before I could get the necessary surgery. Had I been arrested--even by mistake--I would have been thrown into the male holding cell because I still had a penis. The fact that I had with me at all times the documents from my doctors and therapists would not have helped. T-girls such as myself are usually raped and often killed in these situations. The City of Eugene, Oregon was forced by the local Christian community to pass an ordinance preventing people like me from using the public women's bathrooms during my year of living full-time to get permission for surgery. Men's bathrooms were definitely out, so...what's to be done? The Christian argument was that they didn't want men dressing up like women to get into women's bathrooms for nefarious purposes--this despite the fact that according to the FBI there is not a single case of this ever happening in US history.

As a transsexual I can be fired from my job or evicted from my apartment, I can be denied medical care--which has happened to me twice--and I can marry, or not, depending on which state I live in and whether the state I was born in will allow me to change my birth certificate. Airport security can be a nightmare for transsexuals because getting all one's documentation changed to match one's gender presentation can only be accomplished with legal permission and letters from therapists--some of which hinge on having lived full-time for a year (called a real-life test), which leaves one out in the cold for that year. An example of the problem is at the beginning of the real-life test if I had taken a new job rather than try to transition in my old job (for which I could be legally fired), if I fill out my employment application with my gender of choice (female) which is shown on my Driver's License, and give my Social Security number to my new employer, when he sends in my first pay-stub to the Social Security people with my payment he will receive a notice saying that I am not "female" and then he can come back on me for lying on my application and I can be fired. I can also be prosecuted for filing a false Social Security form. The problem is that I could not get my Social Security gender designation changed until I had the surgery and brought notarized records from the hospital and the doctor to the Social Security office to prove it.

I was luckier than many transsexuals, I had a piece of property which I could mortgage to get the $15,000 for surgery and extra money to pay my expenses while I healed up afterwards. Many transsexuals are too poor to ever afford the astronomical expense involved in getting surgery, so they spend the rest of their lives in legal limbo hoping not to get caught up in the wheels of the legal machinery.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Mare,

Thanks for the personal insight into your journey, it doesn't sound quite as simple as some of the programs I've seen, make it out to be.

It also begs the question of "nature vs. nurture" that seems to be so prevelent in many of the arguments here and other places that seek to codify discrimination against our fellow citizens based completely on their sexual preference. How can any rational person not see that putting oneself in the position to take the brunt of so many self-appointed "moralists" ire and ranting hatred, is not a choice made lightly? It is nothing short of painting a bullseye for the most bigotted and angry control freaks to aim at, upon yourself. You must be a very strong person to hold your ground and focus your eyes on the goal, in the face of such adversity.

A tip of the hat to you!

Thank you for the kind words, Johnny, but it's not as much courage as desperation. This is a genetic condition that takes place between the 8th and 18th weeks of gestation, babies all start out as female, then around 8 weeks or so a release of hormones begins to change the body of a potetial male from the female develpment track to the male one. A few weeks later another release of hormones begins the transition of the brain from the female track to the male one. If either of these hormone releases doesn't happen or isn't strong enough one can end up with a discontinuity between body and brain. This isn't a black and white process, the body and the brain both can fall any where along the spectrum between male and female. I ended up with a fairly male body and a fairly female brain. The big problem for me was that when puberty started my body began flooding my brain with testosterone--think of it like putting #2 diesel into the fuel tank of your Honda Accord. Cross-gender hormones like that cause depression and hopelessness, by the time I was 12 I knew something was wrong and told my parents, though of course we had no idea what the problem was. By the time I was 15 I was suicidal, my parents got me counseling, doctors gave me anti-depressants and even anti-psychotics, but nothing helped. I struggled with near daily suicidal ideation for more than 30 years, it ended when I worked with an endocrinologist in LA who specializes in transgender hormone therapy and he gave me testosterone blockers and supplemental estrogen. My depression went away like turning off a light switch. It wasn't so much courage as desperation that made me transition, had I continued to try to live as a man I would have taken my own life whereas transitioning and living as a woman has opened up whole new vistas for me. As a man I lived a semi-hermit existence because it took most of my energy just to stay alive everyday, but living as a woman I have moved to a city, started my own business, and I have an active social and political life. I am happily and legally married, my spouse and I go to speak about trans-issues at University classes several times a year and we have both participated in on-going research projects studying transsexuals and their lives.

Livng with a discontinuity between your brain and body is incredibly painful and disconcerting, try to imagine jumping out of the shower tomorrow morning and discovering that you have the body of the other gender--no changes in how you feel inside, just the different body, and now everybody you meet will expect you to BE the person that they can SEE. No one will be very accepting when you tell them that the "you" inside the body is really the other gender. Studies have shown that nearly half of all transgendered people take their own lives by the age of 30 because there is just no place for them in our society. It's funny how everybody knows that hermaphrodites exist (people with both sets of sex organs or mixed sex organs) but somehow people just can't seem to get it into their heads that bodies and brains can be just as mixed as the visible sex organs. Thank God that this is a treatable condition, now if the culture would just learn enough about it to let us get the medical care we need and let us live our lives as best we can despite this debilitating condition.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Good to hear you're doing well and finding your place. I met a trans lady who was a lesbian once. I didn't know about the issue and thought it weird. If she liked girls, why not stay a guy. I learned that what gender you ARE inside is a differnt thing than what gender you are attracted to.

You make an excellent point, one that is often missed or not understood.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

There are a couple of easy answers to your good questions Mare. Men speak out against male homosexuality because they find it confronting; yet are usually quite supportive of female homosexuality as it is most mens fantasy to be in the sack with two women. Hypocrisy? You bet.

With regards transexuality; I would suggest it is because it is something that most people have little-to-no knowledge of, and even less understanding, and therefore people fear what they don't understand. This is why many associate transexuality with some kind of abberation and don't make any attempt to put themselves into the shoes of those people living with it. The "breeding of ignorance" is rife on this site. People make little attempt to look at different issues or points of view, but prefer instead to push their own limited knowledge of topics, above all else. You, on the other hand, provide a very refreshing take on many things .

I respect Mare for sharing so much of herself in such a hostile environment.

And the reason all the gay/transsexual threads always boil down to male homosexuality is that males still basically run the show around here. Even straight guys can eventually come to accept gay males, but many males, gay or straight, have a really difficult time wrapping their heads around a guy who wants to be a girl. I'm not trying to speak for anyone here other than myself.

So because the AMA says its a birth defect, then it really is a birth defect?

The AMA also said that homosexuality was a mental disorder. Does that mean they were wrong then or wrong now?

Bottom line - and this is how the vast majority of the world (men and women, gay and straight) will see it - is tranny's are quite simply fucked up. No other way to put it. There are severe mental disorders at work with a transsexual and while that is unfortunate for them, it doesnt mean the rest of the world has to just tolerate it.

I'm glad for you that you're on the road to becoming comfortable with yourself, but dont for one moment dare to presume that the rest of us should accomodate you. As far as I'm concerned, its no different than someone who is born with a mental disorder that "causes" them to kill and eat people. I am going to discriminate people like that and advocate they be dealt with in a manner best for SOCIETY, not best for their mental well being.

So in short, tranny's are discriminated against because humanity has decided they should be. I realize you have a hard time accepting life for what it is, but some things you simply cannot change.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

My my, aren't you one very angry person? So you equate a perfectly legal sexual desire with murder and cannabilism? Really?

Fascinating.

No - i equate the fact that a tranny is born defective with the fact that there are some who are born with the desire to kill and eat people.

The connection you should draw is, just because someone is born with a certain disorder does not in any way make said disorder something society should accept and condone.

BTW - im not angry at all. I just simply wont let people get away with making statements designed to absolve themselves of all responsibility for their chosen behavior.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Let me respond to both of your posts in one. The hostile environment is mostly caused by fear and misunderstanding, my intent is to address the fear with knowledge--if possible. I have already received 2 pm's from people who have benefitted from my posts and I'm willing to expose myself to some hostility to accomplish that.

"...difficult time wrapping their heads around a guy who wants to be a girl."
That's one of the most succinct statements of a common misunderstanding that I have ever seen. I am a girl, I was simply forced to pretend to be a boy for the first 50 years of my life by a nation/culture that embraces Eric's perspective. I would love to be a guy, if I could be, but I can't. My life would have been SOOOO much easier if I could just been completely male or female, it didn't happen that way and Eric cannot possibly be unhappier about that than I am--I've had to live with it all my life, Eric just gets to bash a tranny now and then and then go home and revel in his complete masculinity. How nice for him.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

So, Eric, do want to have a discussion on thread about this? Or did you just post to express yourself and you'd like to leave it at that? I'm willing to do it either way. I'm not offended by your attitude, you didn't say anything I haven't heard 100 times before--Hell, you didn't say anything that my own brothers haven't said to me. Your choice, you want to discuss? I think our interaction would be educational for others on the site.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.