Should Homosexuality Be a Criminal Offense? - Page 3 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

noahath · #31 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinetic

That implies that you don't have any choice in the matter whether or not to engage in homosexual activity.

Of course I do. Every human who engages in sexual activity is doing so by choice (unless you're being raped), but I did not choose to be sexually attracted to people of the same sex. Just because you are of the opinion that my sexual preference is wrong, does that mean that I should forgo all of the pleasures of physical contact, just to keep you happy? I am a gay man, and I have sex with men. Get over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinetic

Name a right that you don't have or a place you can't go. I have heard this claim repeatedly but never heard about any particular right that someone has that everyone else doesn't.

I am not allow to have my relationship with a partner legally recognised. I am not allowed to even live as a gay man in some countries. The law does not classify me as being "family" when it comes to making medical or legal decisions in relation to my partner. The list goes on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinetic

I have thought about this. While everyone should be able to live in the manner of their own choosing, it is accurate to access a value to behavior and homosexual conduct should not be immune to critique. That is not to say those who engage cannot contribute to society as professionals, writers, musicians etc. But, the value of homosexual acts can and should be looked at as to whether it contibutes or detracts, an asset or liability.

There are many, many acts attributable to heterosexuals also that are extremely highly questionable, yet I never see you posting on those. Why is that? You are so focussed on the sexual act, and not the person. I do not have sex 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and walk around all the time with sex on the brain .... just as I'm sure you don't. Why then are you so focussed on attributing homosexuality to sex? More and more as you right it is becoming clear to me that the issue you have is with the act of homosexual sex itself. Why is my personal gratification that I do in private with another consenting adult any of your business?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinetic

It was even stated in this thread that "moralizing" should be a felony. If moral values are outlawed in the United States, all that is Left is Anarchy and God help us all.

I have asked you this question several times before and each time you have conveniently chosen not to respond, but nevertheless I'll ask again... you talk of moral value often. Can you please provide a list of exactly what your moral values are?

Why do you think/insist that just because someone is homosexual, they cannot have moral values? Believe me, I've known plenty of heterosexuals lacking in moral values. Or is it more the case that the only moral values that you value are those which you believe in, and anyone who doesn't strictly adhere to your beliefs and preachings is immoral?

Steve · #32 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

I am a gay man, and I have sex with me.

Dude, I'm completely cool with your being gay, but that typo was funny...

noahath · #33 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Dude, I'm completely cool with your being gay, but that typo was funny...

Eeek, LOL. Thanks for picking that up. Have just corrected it.

Mark_Twain · #34 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

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Originally Posted by metalted

I just want to go through my thoughts based on my life. I am straight male btw so you all know, but I do understand what its like to be different and being judged and not being able to be like everyone else. I have to believe myself that homosexuality is a mental issue, psychological, physiological, whatever the word is. I don't believe you can treat it (very effectively atleast), you are born with it. in some cases you child abuse may effect a persons sexuality as well. Its all in the brain, very complex hard to decipher what actually is the cause. I have read and noticed myself that there is a possibilty of a "gay gene", many gay men hold similiar traits, like having smaller frames, being shorter, and being predominantly left handed which shows evidence of a genetic issue. But obviously not all gay men are short or left handed but it hints at the possible genetic issue.

My belief that homosexuality is genetic, is because i have hear about what gay people go through, Trying to be straight and not working. I have a mental issue as well, I have a very mild form of autism. as such i was born without social skills, and had diffucult time picking them up, I still have to learn more to this day. People judge me as being creepy or strange because well I don't talk to much to strangers, and I have problems with facial expressions, I have a blank face all day unless someone says something funny.

I also have a higher intelligence then 98 percent of the population of earth. I do not believe anything unless theres proof, my mind is overwhelmingly logical, so I will never be able to believe in God, Coming from a religious family. So I am Aethist an Anti social, also I have ADD so i do poorly in school.. And you better believe all my life I was told I was stupid and lazy and nasty. I have tried hard to be like everyone else but i cant help it. People thought i was a jerk for talking about the existance of god, tryiing to disprove it when i was little, And i was. So I stopped doing that because I realised it was wrong to tell people there was no god, its rather nasty i think. Also i have no interest in frivilous silly things like trends, makeup personal appearance. I only find mental things important. I also lack the ability to feel sad when other are sad(lacking empathy) but that doesn mean i lack compassion.

Anyways like you, I have to hide my true identity. I must pretend like I am interested in other people when I am to self absorbed to care. I must act out empathy if a girl i am dating is upset. I must hide my aethist tendencies to people. etc.. anyways i could talk all day about this, just tryin to say I kinda know what its like to be gay

As the father of a severely autistic child, I know how you must feel Ted. But it sounds like you're doing pretty well, and your "joke 'em if they can't take a fuck" attitude will take you far!

3.14 · #35 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

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Originally Posted by kinetic

I did quote you.

No you didn't.

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Originally Posted by kinetic

Why even mention it in your reply suggesting anything of the sort when none of what you claimed had one iota to do with my reply to noahath?

It had plenty to do with the title of the thread. Duh. Further, you were the one that assumed I said you said it was criminal.

Now, can you prove your point, or slink out the back door as usual?

Beer · #36 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Did you know .. (apologize if this was mentioned) two young men were recently executed in Iran for the crime of homosexuality. These guys were late teens; Many people, including Iranians, decried the execution.
Execution of two gay teens in Iran spurs controversy - Wikinews

Beer · #37 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

My bad. Ok, forget the citation; apparently, the two men who were allegedly executed for being gay is not the case. They were executed for raping a young boy, which I wish America would adopt similar mandate.

ViolaLee · #38 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_Twain

As the father of a severely autistic child, I know how you must feel Ted. But it sounds like you're doing pretty well, and your "joke 'em if they can't take a fuck" attitude will take you far!

Metal Ted!!!! I'm a dope, I was reading it as met-AL-ted.

And no, homosexuality should not be a crime. Absolutely not. I am a heterosexual in case anyone wondered.

Metalted - cheers for all your hard work battling your autism. Good luck metal ted! \m/ Rock on.

noahath · #39 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beer

My bad. Ok, forget the citation; apparently, the two men who were allegedly executed for being gay is not the case. They were executed for raping a young boy, which I wish America would adopt similar mandate.

Regardless, homosexuality is still a capital crime in much of the Mid East.

3.14 · #40 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

Regardless, homosexuality is still a capital crime in much of the Mid East.

Discrete homosexuality was tolerated under Saddam in Iraq, though.

Of course, it's a whole different story now.

(note: wasn't trying to go off topic, just responding to the Middle East comment

).

Eagle88 · #41 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

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Originally Posted by Steve

Just ruminating over some other threads, and I can't help but reach the conclusion that some people here hate gays

Hate? No, we oppose their actions as wrong but we don't hate them.

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Originally Posted by Steve

so much that they would probably make being a homosexual; flaming,

I can point out times where both sides of debates on this topic have flamed but that is irrelevant because the people involved are individuals flaming each other, not people hating homosexuals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

abstinent,

If you mean that we want them to not do homosexual actions then you are correct but notice something. We don't want them to but we aren't forcing anything. Our stances have been that we will simply not recognise their "unions" but that doesn't force any action or anything.

In any case, even if a law were passed that stated that homosexuality would be subject to legal penalties that doesn't mean that anything is forced. People can still choose to obey a law or not. Please notice that this have not been our stance, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

or otherwise, punishable as a crime.

Again, do we wish them to engage in such activities? No, we don't want them to do homosexual things. Have we forced our opinions on them as some have claimed? No, absolutely not.

Here is the honest truth about those who oppose homosexuality. They do it because of homosexuality being immoral. That's my bone to pick with homosexuality. If it weren't for the fact that it is immoral I would have nothing against it. Simply put, I cannot and will not encourage something that I know is wrong. I have no hatred towards them and I do not believe that others who take the same stance as me harbor any hatred towards them either. I do not encourage violence against those who choose that lifestyle and I do not rejoice when it happens. Even if it were a criminal offense punishable by death by law that would not justify taking things into ones own hands. (It isn't punishable in the manner I said and that is not what I am arguing for, I am simply pointing out that even in extreme circumstances taking the law into our own hands is wrong. Ex. Murder often is punishable by death but that doesn't justify taking the law into ones own hands.) However, as I said, I cannot and I will not encourage, sanction or justify an action that I know is wrong.

noahath · #42 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle88

Here is the honest truth about those who oppose homosexuality. They do it because of homosexuality being immoral. That's my bone to pick with homosexuality. If it weren't for the fact that it is immoral I would have nothing against it. Simply put, I cannot and will not encourage something that I know is wrong. I have no hatred towards them and I do not believe that others who take the same stance as me harbor any hatred towards them either. I do not encourage violence against those who choose that lifestyle and I do not rejoice when it happens. Even if it were a criminal offense punishable by death by law that would not justify taking things into ones own hands. (It isn't punishable in the manner I said and that is not what I am arguing for, I am simply pointing out that even in extreme circumstances taking the law into our own hands is wrong. Ex. Murder often is punishable by death but that doesn't justify taking the law into ones own hands.) However, as I said, I cannot and I will not encourage, sanction or justify an action that I know is wrong.

Can I ask why you believe it to be immoral and wrong? Is this based on some kind of religious belief, personal experience, or something else?

Eagle88 · #43 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

Can I ask why you believe it to be immoral and wrong? Is this based on some kind of religious belief, personal experience, or something else?

Fair question. A few things really:
1. God has declared it to be wrong.
2. It violates the laws of biology. (Men and women are compatable biologically speaking while two of the same gender are not.)
3. No children can be created by homosexual unions. In heterosexual unions a child will be created if there are no physical defects and the prenancy is not prevented by birth control but in homosexual ones with or without these two things there is no possible way for children to be created.

The bottom two are evidences, in my mind, of the truth of the first statement. In other words, they show that God is right.

kinetic · #44 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

Every human who engages in sexual activity is doing so by choice

Exactly. All behavior is a choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

I did not choose to be sexually attracted to people of the same sex.

Attractions that aren't normal mating attractions based on your sex must be coped with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

Just because you are of the opinion that my sexual preference is wrong

Since it is a preference, you have already decided it isn't wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

does that mean that I should forgo all of the pleasures of physical contact, just to keep you happy? I am a gay man, and I have sex with men.

That's more than I need to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

I am not allow to have my relationship with a partner legally recognised.

That would be for reasons previously outlined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

I am not allowed to even live as a gay man in some countries.

You are able to live in the manner of your own choosing in the US, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

The law does not classify me as being "family" when it comes to making medical or legal decisions in relation to my partner.

You have what I would consider to be a handicap for a host of things that others may take for granted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

There are many, many acts attributable to heterosexuals also that are extremely highly questionable

I have noted them, incest, groups and other abominations.

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Originally Posted by noahath

yet I never see you posting on those.

I have and do. The difference is those who engage in incest, for example, are not forcing the Government to recognize their relationship as a value for a licensed promotion.

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Originally Posted by noahath

Why is that? You are so focussed on the sexual act, and not the person.

It is a conduct not normally recognized to earn licensed status, that's why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

I do not have sex 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and walk around all the time with sex on the brain .... just as I'm sure you don't.

I never claimed that you did. However, if two men seek Government recognition for their homosexual relationship then the act does become an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

Why then are you so focussed on attributing homosexuality to sex?

It's actually your focus claiming that you are "a gay man, and I have sex with men".

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

More and more as you right it is becoming clear to me that the issue you have is with the act of homosexual sex itself. Why is my personal gratification that I do in private with another consenting adult any of your business?

It's everyones business once you demand to have the Government take notice and license your conduct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

I have asked you this question several times before and each time you have conveniently chosen not to respond, but nevertheless I'll ask again... you talk of moral value often. Can you please provide a list of exactly what your moral values are?

It might be easier if you ask me about a coulple issues in particular. Often, there are some who get confused about which behavior is immoral or moral. An analogy could be driving 60 MPH in a 55. That is not immoral. However, if you go before the judge and say "your honor, I was only driving 55" then you would be lying and immoral. Also if you were driving faster or reckless, you could cross the threshold and become immoral conduct.

When it comes to sexual practices, everything but one-woman one-man married folks are immoral and I am not going to apologize for mentioning this. Adultery, incest or homosexual behavior are immoral but not my doing. I cannot take credit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

Why do you think/insist that just because someone is homosexual, they cannot have moral values?

Because they are unable to tell anyone what they are based on. If someone's morals are made up willy nilly, it's as if they have no morals to me anyway because they are invented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahath

Believe me, I've known plenty of heterosexuals lacking in moral values.

As have I. The moral value I treasure most above all is honesty. Without honesty, there is nothing to discuss.

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View Poll Results: Should Homosexuality Be Illegal?
Yes	4	7.69%
No	48	92.31%
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