He didn't miss it, but he sure as Hell is avoiding it...

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Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Alittle like gay marriage right? Its illegal now and hence forth shall always remain illegal so we might as well never discuss it... \
My point was trying to pick out the most offensive thing that didn't hurt anyone that I could, I have already noticed that hetrosexual sex in public is gaining acceptance.. i have seen it in canada on newyears no one seemed to care.. and at a protest on tv in europe on stage..

No but morals are not the same as laws either. We are not discussing law we are discussing morals. I have the legal right to Cuss out little old ladies for no reason at all.. but is that moral? As far as I know it's illegal.. but maybe its sexual harrasment? but is that illegal if its not out your job and just in public?

I am showing holes through the "do whatever you want," theory. For instance people say do drugs doesn hurt anyone.. what about your support financially to the drug lords who DO hurt people.. etc..

Morality in my judgement is not based on the Bible.. its based on society,.. It used to be that women could not expose thier ankles or whatever.. over time.. feminist movements and the like. women can wear what they wear.. in europe they don't have to wear tops at the beach.. .. basically its people like you who continuely try to push the envelope of whats Moral, or Socially acceptable. and conservatives that are resisting change. There really is no limit to how far it could go. Ill bet the people who started womens sufferage never thought it would go as far as it did......
if gay marriage is the acceptable norm today.. then 50 yrs from now what makes you think there won't be talks about group marriages.... or about underaged marriages... . .hey if everyones consenting and they truly love each other.. and bla bla bla.. Hey it was common in the ancient world...

No, it’s not “illegal”.

If something is “illegal”, you can be charged with a crime if you do it. Insofar as I know, nobody’s ever been charged with "being married while gay"...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

They don't base their value on much more than what they invent. I don't see a source but a float around whatever way the wind blows.I wouldn't say 'most' people but most forum contibutors to this thread don't even seem to know what their morals are because they are evolving.I expected the worse and that's what was presented. It seems that some equate a lack of morals with having morals. Bizarre.Everyone knows where my moral values come from and that I consider them to be God's Laws. This was an opportunity to enighten me as to what their values are based on. It seems that they aren't so that's what we have, nothing.They had one example, the Ten Commandments. If they need more examples, God help us all.The question wasn't that difficult because they only needed to supply a rational base for their morals. By claiming that they make them up as they go, it seems that all there's Left is Anarchy.

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United We Stand.

Kinetic Do you think one needs religion in order to be moral? or that one needs a guideline on how to be moral? Are people too dumb to figure it out on thier own?

I do think morals in people change.. as a young man who is not married with kids, my morals are much different then my fathers who tried to instill in me his morals. Of course I did all the normal things premarital sex drugs drinking.. . etc .. but i know when i am older and raise a family i will be just like my dad in the moral sense. I will tell them not to do the things I did. etc.. and life goes on..I am sure you were the same way when you were little.

Do you think that being irreligious is morally superior?It's not a question of being 'dumb'. It's a question of being smart enough to tell which doctrine to base one's morals on. By eliminating everything and basing all morals on 'instinct', 'feelings' or 'desire' there isn't anything that could be more risky, as it appears to me anyway.One may loose values or gain values throughout a life time. The values themselves never change.To some extent, you may already have committed yourself to these moral values, you just arent't practicing them as you probably should.Youth is an excuse for many things that someone does. In hindsight, there are things that I would have done differently. Yet, I always have had the base for my moral values. It was always up to me to follow, backslide or ignore them.

I still would like to hear what your father bases his moral values on.

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United We Stand.

I do not think being irreligious is moral superiority thats a silly claim. But I personally have a difficult time with religion, but I think religion has a usefull purpose in society, Even if I am told I am going to hell by some religious people. My dad has a similiar out look on the world as you do, pretty conservative ideals, He holds alot of importance to Religion and traditional society, hates liberals and socialists, he calls himself a secular man meaning he is not exactly a regular church goer but believes religion is important in society.

You know, Dodge, I could almost respect you if you would have the balls to at least admit that you simply get your morals frome someplace other than where some other people get theirs.

Again, you are not at all interested in a dialog, but instead would prefer to demean and belittle any and every answer that does not include the ten commandments.

If you'll notice; if you go back through this entire thread, nobody has criticized you for subscribing to what the ten commandments say. In fact, I think everyone here said that the basic tenets of them are strong. That's not enough for you, though, is it?

You want to cut down at the knees anyone who provides a response that you, personally, don't "agree" with. You know this, and we know this. Have the balls to admit it.

You're a troll, and nothing more...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

It's no more silly than asking, "Do you think one needs religion in order to be moral?"Who told you that? Only God can judge where you go. However, we mortals can suspect where Saddam or Hitler are going, we just can't send them.Would you say that he bases his morals on something other what's in his head at any given time?

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United We Stand.

Careful, Metalted, this is where he starts hammerin' on your Dad...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Not being able to cite a source from where morality "flows" doesn't mean one doesn't have moral values. It means these moral values aren't rationally justified - not that they aren't believed in, and obeyed to.
It was shown that "God's laws" are not a very acceptable/clearly readable justification of morality either. Please read your own thread.

When I said that, I was suggesting that it would be stupid for an aethiest/nonreligious person to assume that they have superior morals then a religious person. I have been told that I would be going to hell from a couple different people. Once I was in a protestant youth group with a girl I liked, and they were talking shit about Catholics saying they are idol worshipers.. and I was pissed, because my family is catholic and I told them off. lol... i have been told I would go to hell for not accepting JC..also Aethiest/Agnostics I read a poll that they are considered the LEAST trusted group in America, because people think that without religion you have no morals... That was in a poll that included all races/ethnicities, Muslims, Homosexuals pretty much everyone. I don't really care all that much but I think I did when I was little. I also had the experiance of knowing a horrible priest that said everyone was going to hell. etc..



He bases it on what his parents taught him, and society.. and his religion.
I guess if you really think about it all moral code is somewhere along the line based on some kind of religion. I do think that society should have a common accepted moral code that should be accepted as the norm.
Even If I have no intention of following the normal moral code, The ideal should never be enforced in any way just suggested.
I think it would be bad if parents started asking thier young daughters if they "want to marry Jimmy or Jessica?" I am against discrimination, and I understand that Gay people want to be accepted. But I believe more in Toleration and understanding, then complete acceptance. I went to a school briefly, an ultra liberal sanfransico valued catholic school.. and being gay was "In" some of the most popular kids happened to be Gay, I think that is not a good thing.

Absolutely not! Morals are not governed by religion. If that were the case, why then have society's morals existed in areas governed by different religions, or even secular society? Belief in a god or gods doesn't automatically enable you to a higher standard of morals, nor does not following a religious doctrine prevent you from being moral. I can name you many, many examples of so-called followers of religion who are not moral at all; such as Jim Baker, Fred Phelps, et al. I can even cite examples of my own family who feel that as long as you go to Church once a week you can be an asshole for the rest of the week. Morals are what are taught to us by our parents when we are young, and are developed by ourselves as we grow older through interaction in society as to what is acceptable, and what is appropriate. Religion is not, and should not be seen as, the be all and end all of moral authority.

(emphasis added)

While I strongly agree with the final statement of your post, I find the bolded sentence extremely interesting. What do you mean they "are not moral at all"?

I suspect that Fred Phelps (sick b*ast*rd though he may be) has, if anything, an unusually thorough and consistent moral position. I disagree with it, of course, but I don't doubt that he believes it.

Careful in the "we" department, sport.
Some of us may have > 1 god. While others have none at all.
Got me?