Children have the same right not to be hit, but they also have the same responsibility to act in a manner to ensure they dont GET hit.

Adults have the right not to be incarcerated, but with that comes the responsibility not to commit acts which will GET them incarcerated. Its pretty much the same thing.

Do you really expect a consequence-free world Samantha?

Children need to be taught and a little percussive education tends to work wonders.

Has nothing to do with the dark ages Sam. People still spank their kids today just as they did 10,000 years ago. Its one of the many tools available to parents.

No - we havent progressed. For us to have progressed to the point where spanking a kid now and then wasnt a necessity would require massive leaps in evolution and an change in human nature to the point where we really were no longer human.

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

But you DID have to use it, did you not?

See thats the point - you TRY to avoid it, but it is necessary at times.

Your "power" was respected because you had demonstrated the willingness to actually USE it at times.

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Rahul, just out of curiosity, at what age does a man become an old man?

__________________
Mr. Obama, please release the UFO files!

Depends on what the adult did now doesnt it?

If it is necessary to use force to make the adult comply, then force may be used.

No different than a spanking.
No it isnt. In fact, when a teacher is giving the spanking, its typically not allowed to be the same teacher who witnessed the infraction - for just that reason.
No it isnt. Its a very effective way.
It also tends to teach the child that certain behaviors are not acceptable.
Yes it does. Did your parents ever spank you?
Great - go find someone who will reproduce with you, have a couple of em, and get back to me.

__________________
In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Here's my issue with corporal punishment in schools:

Parents choose how to raise their kids. Some use corporal punishment often, others not so often. Some kids respond better to different things. The severity of infractions is also seen in different lights by different parents sometimes I would come home to my father angry at me, other times I came home to my father angry at my teacher for bothering him at work). If an infraction occurs it is better to call the parents and inform them what the child did. The parents can then decide what to do.

If there is a situation in which a child won't comply and is being constantly disruptive (such as fighting, running around, screaming), I have no problems with teachers grabbing or using pressure points if it is necessary. Not as punishment, but as a means of gaining physical control of a child who is out of control so that they can then be sent out.

Sometimes physical force is necessary, but our teachers are not the ones raising the children, so it should only be used as a means of maintaining a safe learning environment.

At Eric's age. That was in response to his comment about my age (which he guessed wrong anyway).

1. That wasn't the point. The point was the kid could be harmed.

2. I'm sorry but you are wrong. Violence is violence, regardless of whether it leaves bruises or marks or doesn't.

3. So prove you were corporally punished and prove THIS is what led to your good behavior.

If you insist on being vague, then your point doesnt stand. In a debate, one is required to back up what one says. Just saying "take my word for that" doesn't cut it.

Perhaps you could cite a specific instance which is "severe" enough, rather than dance around the point?

We haven't estabilished anything except the fact you refuse to prove what you say, and except me to take your word as gospel.

Eh? Why did you include it in a response to me then?

So frustrated, OK ...
No it doesn't. But you won't answer, so there is no point asking again.

But I disagree. Humilating someone is never good, for whatever reason. It actually has the potential to do more harm than good.


Coming from someone who refuses to proof of anything himself.

But be specific, and tell me what proof you desire, and I'll find proof for you.
Try and not make vague statements though ...

That's not how it comes across to others.

And your attitude is typical of the Bible thumpers in the South who think they, and only THEY know whats right, and thus don't even bother to consider other people's opinions/points of view.

Sure you are, but it's OK.

So your opinion on George Bush and the war in Iraq means squat since you don't live in Iraq or the White house?

Better informed? Says who? Prove this.

Prove it.

It's not an oversimplication. It shows you that your statement was foolish.

And you should consider other opinions as well.

As is the opinion of the kid being punished corporally.

Then why did you make a statement if you couldn't prove it?

And they'd get punished by the law if it wasn't allowed and wouldn't have any backdoors to slip through.

Can we stick to the topic?

Would making it legal ensure it wouldn't happen?

Abuse yes, but I wonder what you would term as abuse.

There are plenty of demonstrable ill effects. I outlined some in my first response to Mrs M.

So now you know how I judged your frustration levels pretty accurately.

Didnt see your first post, but yes - I agree, mutual respect is far more important, and beating on kids doesn't foster real rmutual espect.

I don't think it should be allowed in schools and I personally wouldn't chose it as a method for teaching my children right from wrong if I had any. I don't expect to be hit if I do something wrong and I wouldn't do it to my children.

My Father gave me some spankings, but didn't have to do it often. Although I was young, I was able to put two and two together. When my father got mad enough to spank me the fact that he was that mad was more upsetting to me than the spanking. Most children (at least in my generation) valued the favor of their parents, we knew that thats where trust, permission, and good things came from. Todays kids seem to get all thay desire no matter how they conduct themselves...........and todays Moms and Dads are even more mixed up, they have no idea how to gain control of their children, let alone their respect.

Yeah, don't spank them, that would be so horribly wrong.

__________________
Mr. Obama, please release the UFO files!

You hit the nail on the head.

But I do believe there will always be a time when corporal punishment would be needed.

__________________
Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

Rahul, you had asked in an earlier post what situations warrant corporal punishment. When I was in school, it was pretty much a last resort tool. If a kid talked in class constantly, in spite of having to stand in the corner, write 100 times 'I will not talk in class', etc., then he would get paddled. Fighting generally meant a paddling also. Keep in mind that a note went home to the parents and that means that Junior got in trouble there, too.

For those of you that believe that spanking a child is teaching them violence is okay, just listen to what some of us older folks are saying. We WERE spanked and yet we know that violence is wrong. Why? Because we didn't view spankings as violence! We knew they were punishment for disobeying. Today's youth are far more violent without the spankings than the youth of my day were with spankings. Of course you must factor in a lot of other things such as in my day we had two parent families, mom and dad didn't try to make excuses to the teacher when we were in trouble, nor did they threaten to sue the teachers because we were paddled and a host of other things that are different for kids now.

Sam, you stated that corporal punishment is illegal. It may be in CA but it's not in LA. We still spank our children and the only time the law is called in is in the cases of abuse. (Abusive parents will be abusive parents regardless of the law!) I'm definitely against abuse but a spanking goes a long way in teaching a kid to behave!

__________________


"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Hmm, OK - so a last resort. But at least the schools there can't simply go all out on the kids, no holds barred (as I figured) which is very good - that limits abuse or the possibility of abuse.

Now the rest of your post deals with spankings at home which is a different story altogether ... (if not, let me know).