Getting in a vehicle by itself kills no-one. Anyhow, it's far more practical not to beat upon others that to not drive, period.

I disagree. You obviously didnt look at the definition of violence I provided you with. Violence is violence, whether it injures the other person permanently or not is a different story.


Yes. Once again, we are not discussing sports.

That holds little or no water in a debate. Further, are you implying non-conservatives aren't honest?

Please back your position up with something. The others at least provide personal experiences at the least - you, on the other hand, have just made idiotic one line statements which explain nothing conclusively and do squat to further your case.
So prove this, or provide some logic. Further conservatism didnt work in the war on IRaq, to quote but one example.

And like the pro gun crowd this has been reduced to a simplistic “because I want to argument.” Its not about your choice or what you believe, it’s about the welfare of children. That you relate them to your cherished guns speaks volumes.
They are no ones possessions. They are people. And they are abused daily. Any idiot can have a child. They need to be protected from these idiots. And some people do need to be told what to do with “their” children for “their” children’s welfare.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that we all know the difference between abuse and a spanking. Abuse is illegal in the US whereas a few swats on the ass isn't in most places. Making spankings illegal will NOT stop abusers though because they're already ignoring the law.
I never abused my children but they were spanked when all else failed. My parents never abused me but I did get my butt spanked a few times. I didn't grow up to be a serial killer, I didn't beat up other kids and I'm a well-adjusted adult.
I've given my 7 year old grandson one spanking in his life. He was five years old and wouldn't get out of the car when my son told him to. Instead he sat in the backseat pouting so I told my son I'd get him out. I talked to him but after a few minutes of trying to reason with him, I popped his butt a couple of times with my hand and then he got out. Unlike his father, he usually does everything I ask of him without argument!
Now, my granddaughter is another matter! When she first started pulling up, she made a beeline for my entertainment center each time I put her down. I tried the distraction method, putting her in the playpen for a few minutes, telling her no-no, etc. She'd crawl over there saying "no, no, no..." the entire time and still touch it! After popping her hand on several occasions, she decided to leave the entertainment center alone. She'll be two in March and I can see many spankings in her future because she's so hardheaded! The only place she'll ever be spanked is her butt and a pop on the hands and it will only be hard enough to get her attention. That's NOT abuse! It's discipline when all else fails and I love her enough to discipline her.
I've a question for all of you that are against spankings. Do you have children of your own?

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

1. My point was not that you grew up to a serial killer. I gave you a link explaining why spanking can be bad. Any comments?

2. I don't, but that doesnt disqualify me or anyone else from arguing over it. Further, there are PLENTY of people WITH kids who are against spanking. Do a Google on it, and you'll see.

Plus, I'd like to point out one VERY IMPORTANT thing - ALL of those who are FOR spanking have summarily failed to provide sources or any logical argument in favor of spanking other than 'you'll have to take my word for it' and 'do you have kids of your own?'. It's fine if you can't back up your position on this, but then you shouldn't be presenting your point of view in a debate anyway if you can't back it up. That sjust how debate works.

No, it doesn't disqualify you, but it is kind of amusing to those of us who have raised children.

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Mr. Obama, please release the UFO files!

The ones I find amusing are the so-called experts whom either have no children or whose children were raised by nannies. Those jack-a-holes wouldn't last 1 yr having to actually raise their kids.

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

I'm glad it tickles you.

Do you have anything to offer as far as debate on the subject goes, though?

No, that was abuse. My point was the specifics of discipline are eventually forgotten and the lesson retained. In cases of abuse, the 'discipline' Is remembered, because it was unjust. (Tho my abuse was episodic - I suppose for chronic, ongoing abuse, it could all blur together. Hmmm... Another case of specifics forgotten with the lesson retained, but in that case a lesson that shouldn't have been taught or learned.)

I knew it, but reinforcement and/or teaching that there are actual Consequences to bad choices are not necessarily bad things.

No, they will still be disciplined. Just because a child calls anything that inhibits them from doing whatever they want 'abuse' doesn't mean that it is.

That's actually a point in Favor of spanking! Those who Don't know right from wrong will (at least partly) correct their behavior based on knowing 'spankable' from 'non-spankable' actions.

Speaking in broad generalities, children learned right from wrong and grew up to be productive members of society. The 'proof' of this is that society has continued forward rather than devolved back to anarchy, true tribalism, or such.


Thanks for helping us get back on topic! I favor corporal punishment in schools, but only with parental authorization. I also favor schools being able to kick out disruptive students. The latter would be more of an improvement than the former.

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Today's forecast: Government corruption.

Tomorrow's forecast: 100% chance of more 'politics as usual'

Maybe it's finally time to vote Libertarian

There are plenty of psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. telling us not to spank. Many base this partly on criminals that were ABUSED as children, not spanked so it doesn't pertain to me. It's like saying that since Mr. Smith had a reaction to penicillin, no one can take it for fear that they too will be allergic to it.

As for those of us who believe in spanking not being able to back up our position, what better source is there than someone who has been there? Sure, those with degrees can say that spankings cause this or that but most of us that were spanked disagree with those findings, based on personal experience.

This isn't the formal debate section so there are rules that state you must back up your source.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Well, many don't base it upon that.

Well yes, but I can say I've been there too (which I have - on the recieving end ) - how would the issue be resolved either way or at all, or even be discussed?

But I don't think most of us disagree. I've seen plenty of opinions on this one thread alone to see some disagree, but not all.

Evidently, everyone is at odds over the effectiveness of beating kids. I, for one, will not hit. No, I have no kids. I do have animals and respect their need to feel safe just as much as a kid would. Ive never hit them. Well, I did drop a book on my cat once but that was an accident.
Anyway, if anything, hitting makes kids fear you. I know what some will say: that is the desired relationship.
This is a strange sentiment. Are kids really that bad that they need someone close to them to fear? Apparently, many believe so. My cousins feared their uncle. They have a strange relationship grown up: they dont tell him anything. He always reenforces his need for them to fear him. I suppose being in your 30's should matter as much because you are an adult. But, my point is: hitting creates fear. Feel free to create the same relationship. Dont count on your children to tell you a damn thing when they get older. It is the reason psychology discourages inflicting pain on kids because of this tendency. At least, one of many reasons. But, they are your kids and it is not anyones business how you relate to them. Just understand they will never be perfect and neither will you.


Ok, now to stay on topic: schools that need to be physical with kids need their heads examined.

If a child becomes truly afraid of their parents (I don't mean fear of consequences, actual fear that they will be hurt) then they are being abused. Period. Spankings just get the child's attention when reasoning with them fails. It is unpleasant enough that they remember the experience and what brought it about.

I don't think any of us are at odds over the effectiveness of beating kids because beatings are not what we're talking about.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Sorry, but you have no say on how others raise their children.

The fact that you THINK you do, speaks volumes.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

With many children a swat on the butt emphasises what the parent has said, and gets the kid's attention.

This method of education and discipline has thousands of years of history behind it, and is known to work
The best fact to back up MY statement is the objective reality that spanking kids has been considered normal through all of human history.

The only thing you've got to counter that is one study? Going to have to do better than that.
Again, the historical fact of countless generations of parents using spanking as an educational and disciplinary tool with good effect should be proof enough.

Are you REALLY going to say that you're better equipped to decide how to educate/discipline a child than every single one of the parents who have gone before you since the dawn of man?

THAT, my friend, is the height of arrogance
Only because we know easier ways to do it. Again, this is a technological change, not a human nature change.