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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Western Otto Western Otto is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd93 View Post
And the problem with that is?
If you are over the age of 12 and you still don't know what the problem with that is, then you may not be smart enough to understand the answer--and your signature line would tend to reinforce this conclusion.

Are you familiar with the Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) group in New York? A non-partisan group that records speeches and public statements by the most popular public figures and then researches them to find out how accurate they are. They recorded 6 months of Limbaugh programs and checked every fact, then they released their findings: Rush Limbaugh's Reign of Error.

Interestingly enough almost all of the "facts" were wrong, many were out-right fabrications. When he quotes the Congressional Register, do you ever go and look it up to see if he's telling the truth? I bet not, but the folks at FAIR did--every single reference--and most of the time he was lying. In their book, FAIR quoted Rush and gave the time and date of each statement, which they then followed up with the truth and their sources for it. You will please note that FAIR published a book calling him a liar and he had nothing to say about it, no suit for libel, no attack claiming partisanship because he knew if he did that they would prove him wrong even more loudly and publicly in the press or in court.

Rush is a comedian--and he can be quite funny--but he sold his soul to some rightwing idealogues and became rich by being their attack dog. I thought that the interview with his mother was quite instructive as well--you should look it up on the internet and watch it--she'll give you a different perspective on ol' Rush.

As an aside, I have to admit that my favorite Rush story is his denial of global warming. Most of the "facts" he spouted on his programs came from a couple of books written by Dixie Lee Ray, former Governor of Washington State, who derived much of her "scientific" information from work funded by Lyndon La Rouche, who is a fascinating study in himself. A panel of reputable scientists reviewing La Rouche's climate research labeled it the largest collection of bad science they had ever seen in one place. Rush should stick to being a comedian.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
pramjockey's Avatar
pramjockey pramjockey is online now
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd93 View Post
You should really learn something about the Civil War before posting some of the trash you post.
Please. Which part of my post is "trash?"

I know enough about the civil war. I suspect my connections to it are far closer than yours.

Quote:
I have these flags as a historic symbol.
Bullshit. You don't fly a Confederate flag in your house and attach one to the back of your motorcycle jacket as a historic symbol, any more than you would with a Nazi swastika flag.

Quote:
The Civil war era is one of my favorite historical eras to study. It's arguably one of, if not the most important thing in American history. I also have several weapons replicated from the period, I'm extremely fascinated with the period. I have these flags for the historical statement, I still fail to see how they promote racism, They are a necessary symbol to remind us all of the importance of our nations history.
World War 2 was an important time in US history. Why do you not fly Rising Sun or swastika flags?

Quote:
Maybe you can seriously tell me why you people come off as anti-American, I honestly don't understand.
You're the only one who can be held responsible of your interpretation of my words. I have stated many times my love for my country. Your decision to ignore those words is not my problem.

Quote:
Wow, glad I can think for myself then.
You do? I thought Rush was doing all your thinking for you. Sure comes off that way.

Quote:
I never overestimate anything.
Ah, so you're perfect, then? You never make any mistakes at all? Why does your divine presence bother with us mere mortals, then?

Oh, and you obviously overestimated my antipathy towards you.


Quote:
It's good you find me nonthreatening, because I'm not a threat to anyone.
You and your ilk are a threat to America. Why do you hate it so much?


Quote:
I'm so glad you know so much about me to accurately assess my intelligence level, once again, proving your arrogance. I debate issues way better than any Liberal will admit, that's why Liberals have to go to mindless personal attacks within 2 posts of hearing my arguments and being proven wrong.

Don't worry, I'll never go away.
How can I know anything more about you than how and what you write? Your writing is barely high-school level, and your logic well below that. It's not a personal attack, it's the reality that you present to us. If you want us to feel differently, please behave differently.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
pramjockey's Avatar
pramjockey pramjockey is online now
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Otto, could you provide a link to that study? I'd love to read it.
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Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
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Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
todd93 todd93 is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gort View Post
Well if you aren't clear on why African Americans might take offense at the Stars and Bars then why should I assume you are able to be critical and logical in any of your other thinking.
You Liberals are so easily roused into personal attacks! see post #28

Quote:
No it isn't because you listen to Limbaugh, it is because you feel you need him to VALIDATE your conservatism. Clearly that means you do not have the strength of character to know what you believe in. Moreover I know plenty of conservatives that would argue with you that Limbaugh is a true conservative.
I know you probably support the fairness doctrine because you don't want true Conservatism validated on the radio waves, you want it to be shut down because people actually respond very well to true conservatism. Don't ever question the strength of my character, it's obviously something you know nothing about. So then they're not Conservative, they are Liberal?

Quote:
Frankly where you are concerned todd I have not only hit the mark I have hit it dead center.
You wish.

Quote:
Every word that you utter I have heard on Limbaughs show at some time or other. There is no original thought here.
So, because Rush VALIDATES Conservatism, it's not original? Maybe it's time you wake up and look at reality.

Quote:
For example you assume anyone who does not agree with you must be a liberal.
Not at all, Conservatives can debate each other, but it's a warm and friendly debate, not spewing hatred and personal attacks like Liberals do.

Quote:
You seem to further assume all liberals are pretty much the same.
How are Liberals different? They've been generalized so well, they want to expand Government to control peoples lives. Normal people, true Americans, like me don't need that.

Quote:
Both generalizations Limbaugh uses until someone points out to him the fact that he is generalizing, and then he will backtrack just long enough to say I mean those whacko liberals. Of course his memory is such that within minutes he is once again generalizing.
Who has pointed this out to him? Do you have a transcript?

Quote:
I am sure it isn't that you are incapable of original thought, all of us are capable of it, it is just that you do not seem to be willing to put the effort forth.
So supporting Conservatism is not original thought, but being brainwashed by Liberalism is? Ok, I got it now!

Quote:
It is almost like you actually buy into his saying "I will tell you all the news that you need to know and what to think about it."
He does report the news that we need to know, the news that the Liberal media refuses to report because they refuse to show people the success of Conservatism.

Quote:
Trust me his trying to work with one half of his brain tied behind his back doesn't work for him either. Is that something you really want to emulate?
Ok, maybe you're right, maybe one quarter would be better, Liberals are quite over-matched even with one half of his brain. Or mine for that matter, you think it's difficult to knock you guys down? It's not, it's actually quite easy. Look, I just did it!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Western Otto Western Otto is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd93 View Post
Maybe you can seriously tell me why you people come off as anti-American, I honestly don't understand.
Could you please explain what you mean by the bolded sentence above?

Who is "you people"?

And what have "you people" done that is anti-American?

To whom do "you people come off as anti-American" to?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
todd93 todd93 is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Please. Which part of my post is "trash?"

I know enough about the civil war. I suspect my connections to it are far closer than yours.
I'm sure they are.

Quote:
Bullshit. You don't fly a Confederate flag in your house and attach one to the back of your motorcycle jacket as a historic symbol, any more than you would with a Nazi swastika flag.
Just because I'm fascinated with the era of the Civil war doesn't mean I agree with the Confederacy, I have what is known as values, I'm a collector, maybe you should get to know me before saying what I have honestly told you is bullshit. It's not. Just because you want to forget American history like a typical Liberal doesn't mean that I have to. I wouldn't fly a Swastika because of A. They didn't fly them here in the period, and B. I'm not fond of such a symbol of Liberalism.

Quote:
World War 2 was an important time in US history. Why do you not fly Rising Sun or swastika flags?
Very true, I don't discount the importance of WWII at all. I am just not as fascinated with it, I have a neighbor, and a good friend here who has many MANY relics from WWII, he has some very very cool stuff, but what can I say, I like black powder!

Quote:
You're the only one who can be held responsible of your interpretation of my words. I have stated many times my love for my country. Your decision to ignore those words is not my problem.
But it doesn't really jive when you call for our troops to cut and run.

Quote:
You do? I thought Rush was doing all your thinking for you. Sure comes off that way.
I don't need others to make my descisions, again, I'm not a Liberal.

Quote:
Ah, so you're perfect, then? You never make any mistakes at all? Why does your divine presence bother with us mere mortals, then?
We all make mistakes, now you're just being silly.

Quote:
Oh, and you obviously overestimated my antipathy towards you.
No. I know exactly what I'm up against.


Quote:
You and your ilk are a threat to America. Why do you hate it so much?
Explain how we "hate" it? Is it by promoting freedom? Or maybe by being against our rights being taken away? Yeah, that's it, because Conservatives refuse to relinquish our Constitutional rights, we hate America!


Quote:
How can I know anything more about you than how and what you write? Your writing is barely high-school level, and your logic well below that. It's not a personal attack, it's the reality that you present to us. If you want us to feel differently, please behave differently.
My behavior is not really any of your concern, nor does it show any failure of logic. I think for myself, talk for myself, and act on the best decisions for my family and myself, and frankly, I don't give one sweet damn if you Liberals find disgust in my actions or not. I'm very well convicted, and you know nothing, precisely nothing about my writings. Logic is something that can't be judged by what is written on a simple message board.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
todd93 todd93 is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Western Otto View Post
Could you please explain what you mean by the bolded sentence above?
Absolutely, I'm more than happy to!

Quote:
Who is "you people"?
Liberals.

Quote:
And what have "you people" done that is anti-American?
Bit by bit they have taken away more and more of our rights, and if elected will continue to do so until they destroy the Constitution. They are too cowardly to defend the nation, even to the point that they impugn the troops and the leaders as if they were a bunch of murdering idiots. What else do you want to know?

Quote:
To whom do "you people come off as anti-American" to?
Every hard working true American, people like me.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Western Otto Western Otto is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Otto, could you provide a link to that study? I'd love to read it.
The FAIR study? The book is available on Amazon: The Way Things Aren't: Rush Limbaugh's Reign of Error. You can google FAIR or you can go to
http://www.fair.org/index and put Limbaugh into the search window to look at the info they have on him.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
todd93 todd93 is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Western Otto View Post
If you are over the age of 12 and you still don't know what the problem with that is, then you may not be smart enough to understand the answer--and your signature line would tend to reinforce this conclusion.
Already have you on a personal attack, is that the best you can do, kid?

Quote:
Are you familiar with the Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) group in New York? A non-partisan group that records speeches and public statements by the most popular public figures and then researches them to find out how accurate they are.
Oh, the Liberal group, I've heard of them, yes.

Quote:
They recorded 6 months of Limbaugh programs and checked every fact, then they released their findings: Rush Limbaugh's Reign of Error.
More Liberal propaganda.

Quote:
Interestingly enough almost all of the "facts" were wrong, many were out-right fabrications.
No reliable source for that.

Quote:
When he quotes the Congressional Register, do you ever go and look it up to see if he's telling the truth?
Yes, I do.

Quote:
I bet not, but the folks at FAIR did--every single reference--and most of the time he was lying.
Right.

Quote:
In their book, FAIR quoted Rush and gave the time and date of each statement, which they then followed up with the truth and their sources for it.
Like every other Liberal bias place, they mis-quoted, and took Rush completely out of context.

You will please note that FAIR published a book calling him a liar and he had nothing to say about it, no suit for libel, no attack claiming partisanship because he knew if he did that they would prove him wrong even more loudly and publicly in the press or in court.[/quote]

Noted, or maybe, just like every other attacker, they aren't worth his time.

Quote:
Rush is a comedian--and he can be quite funny--but he sold his soul to some rightwing idealogues and became rich by being their attack dog.
He is funny when he illustrates the absurdity of the left.

Quote:
I thought that the interview with his mother was quite instructive as well--you should look it up on the internet and watch it--she'll give you a different perspective on ol' Rush.
I'm sure.

Quote:
As an aside, I have to admit that my favorite Rush story is his denial of global warming. Most of the "facts" he spouted on his programs came from a couple of books written by Dixie Lee Ray, former Governor of Washington State, who derived much of her "scientific" information from work funded by Lyndon La Rouche, who is a fascinating study in himself. A panel of reputable scientists reviewing La Rouche's climate research labeled it the largest collection of bad science they had ever seen in one place. Rush should stick to being a comedian.
Right, so, humans cause global warming? You are truly delusional!
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Western Otto Western Otto is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd93 View Post
Liberals. I'm not sure I am a liberal, could you define it for me please.?

Bit by bit they have taken away more and more of our rights, and if elected will continue to do so until they destroy the Constitution. They are too cowardly to defend the nation, even to the point that they impugn the troops and the leaders as if they were a bunch of murdering idiots. What else do you want to know? I, too, have noticed that the Patriot Act has taken away a bunch of our rights. It also concerns me that the government is tapping our phones and reading our emails without getting court orders. The secret prisons and the reinstitution of torture being done without legal permission concerns me greatly too. George Bush lying about WMD to get us into the war and his disastrous lack of planning for the war bothers me because of the thousands of American soldiers who have lost their lives and thousands more who have been terribly crippled, not to mention the 10's of thousands of Iraqi civilians who have died or been maimed, all these things seem very un-American to me. Another troubling trend I see is the forced entry of the government into the debate about which consenting adults can enter into a legal contract and which cannot--this is a state's issue, but George is pushing for a Constitutional Amendment. I was hoping you would define "liberal" for me because until today I never realized that George Bush and his administration were liberals.

They are too cowardly to defend the nation, even to the point that they impugn the troops and the leaders as if they were a bunch of murdering idiots.
You have sort of lumped me into the "liberal" camp, but when I fought in Vietnam was I a liberal then too? Why are you saying that I am a coward? Where did you serve in the military?

Every hard working true American, people like me.
I own and run my own business, I pay my taxes and I vote, I love my country and I struggle to help it become a better place. I am married, our kids have graduated from college and are employed, I've never taken welfare or unemployment benefits, I've never been arrested, I've never declared bankruptcy. Am I a liberal? Maybe I'm just another hardworking American who doesn't like some of the things I see going on in this country and you are making entirely too many assumptions without the information to support them.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Western Otto Western Otto is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd93 View Post
Oh, the Liberal group, I've heard of them, yes.
Right, so, humans cause global warming? You are truly delusional!
So you are saying his Mom is a liberal who lied about him? Woo! If you actually look things up in the Congressional Register then you have the capability of looking up the scientific work showing that we (humans) are playing an important role in the rise of global temperatures. At least you aren't still locked into the NO THERE ISN'T ANY GLOBAL WARMING mindset, that's progress. A bit more research will reveal a world of solid evidence showing our place in this problem.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
emptypepsi's Avatar
emptypepsi emptypepsi is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

"No insurance to gays because they know the risk of AIDS through that lifestyle." Interesting proposition the OP has here. Let's apply that kind of thinking to other human beings as well.

If that is the case, they should deny insurance to overweight people. I mean, after all - those people know the risks of high blood pressure, heart disease, Type II Diabetes and respiratory disorders that accompany such a state of being. Why the hell should they get anything then?

Perhaps we should deny insurance to women who don't exercise often or intake a lot of calcium, as they know the risks of developing osteoperosis and other bone problems without such nutrients and care.

Perhaps we should deny insurance to people who have spouses who smoke, as they know the long term effects of risks of second hand smoke. They should know better and the second it is revealed that they have smoking spouses we must automatically assume they don't have them smoke outside and crack the window in the vehicle when smoking.

Maybe those who don't get 25 grams of fiber a day shouldn't get coverage. I mean, they're putting themselves up for a huge risk of colon disease.

Jeez, now that I think about it - maybe I shouldn't have health coverage. I mean, I smoked marijuana once when I was in high school just to try it out. I obviously have done damage (albeit incredibly minimal) to my lungs. I knew the risks and the long term effects.

Maybe nobody but perfect individuals like steveox should get it!


Last edited by emptypepsi; 01-21-2007 at 01:32 PM.
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
todd93 todd93 is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Western Otto View Post
I, too, have noticed that the Patriot Act has taken away a bunch of our rights. It also concerns me that the government is tapping our phones and reading our emails without getting court orders.
First of all, the Patriot Act has done no such thing. There is no connection between a program that only targets communications coming from, or going to foreign individuals suspected of terrorism. So, unless you have terrorist contacts, (and I doubt you do) I'd say you're safe.


Quote:
The secret prisons and the reinstitution of torture being done without legal permission concerns me greatly too.
Well, now that torture has been defined, it's been stopped. However, you can't expect the same treatment from our enemy, but whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

Quote:
George Bush lying about WMD to get us into the war and his disastrous lack of planning for the war bothers me because of the thousands of American soldiers who have lost their lives and thousands more who have been terribly crippled, not to mention the 10's of thousands of Iraqi civilians who have died or been maimed, all these things seem very un-American to me.

First of all, George W. Bush didn't lie about WMD's, all reports stated that they existed, and I do believe they were moved to Syria. We've lost a very small portion of soldiers, it's been a huge success from that standpoint, and you can thank the terrorists for killing all those civilians. Is it un-American to protect and defend ourselves from terrorists? If the terrorists weren't in Iraq, they would be here.

Quote:
Another troubling trend I see is the forced entry of the government into the debate about which consenting adults can enter into a legal contract and which cannot--this is a state's issue, but George is pushing for a Constitutional Amendment.
Every once in a while, if you think about it enough, you'll strike gold, and you've definitely struck it here! I assume you're talking about gay marriage, and I couldn't agree with you more, that, along with abortion, along with some other issues are state issues that should be delt with state by state, power to the people, the way our nation was designed!

Quote:
I was hoping you would define "liberal" for me because until today I never realized that George Bush and his administration were liberals.
They're not.

Quote:
I own and run my own business, I pay my taxes and I vote, I love my country and I struggle to help it become a better place. I am married, our kids have graduated from college and are employed, I've never taken welfare or unemployment benefits, I've never been arrested, I've never declared bankruptcy. Am I a liberal? Maybe I'm just another hardworking American who doesn't like some of the things I see going on in this country and you are making entirely too many assumptions without the information to support them.
I respect that, totally, I really do.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
todd93 todd93 is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Western Otto View Post
So you are saying his Mom is a liberal who lied about him? Woo! If you actually look things up in the Congressional Register then you have the capability of looking up the scientific work showing that we (humans) are playing an important role in the rise of global temperatures. At least you aren't still locked into the NO THERE ISN'T ANY GLOBAL WARMING mindset, that's progress. A bit more research will reveal a world of solid evidence showing our place in this problem.
let me guess, we're causing global warming because a consensus of scientists, with precisely no proof what so ever say we are?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Western Otto Western Otto is offline
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Re: Should Insurance companies deny you insurance if youre gay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd93 View Post
let me guess, we're causing global warming because a consensus of scientists, with precisely no proof what so ever say we are?