Originally Posted by JHC

Forgive me for monopolizing the thread. This is a particularly irksome issue to me.

Thomas Jefferson was a huge advocate of education but not public education. Some of the biggest advocates of public education were indeed big business and for precisely the reasons you mention! This is no secret but I guess most folks are OK with that.

It's a bad thing. Not only do we keep them in school later and later in life, we send them off earlier and earlier so that system of indoctrination kicks in before Mom and Dad have had a chance to do any real parenting.

It's no wonder we suffer such disciplinary problems! Public school systems weren't created to increase intelligence nor were they created to do the job of parenting! And they shouldn't.

I was lucky. My kids were so incredibly bright that I couldn't bear the thought of daycare and their natural affinity for learning held out much longer than most kids.

As my oldest stands on the threshold of "higher education", I'm stuck with the repercussions of her high intelligence and low grades. Had I made her conform, she'd have good grades but she wouldn't be as bright or happy. She'd have an easier time getting into a good school. When was the last time you heard of a college asking for an IQ test for admittance?

But without a college education, how will she make a living?

We've effectively flipped the tables so that non-conforming intelligent kids will pick tomatoes (not literally of course), and conforming but not as bright kids grow up to be industry leaders and politicians.

Originally Posted by Beer

Blame the parents. Parents think they can throw their kids at the education system and have them coming out geniuses with motivations to become doctors. Doesnt work that way.
Kids with bad homes, carry it through school.
Teachers are there to TEACH. They are not the therapists, babysitters, gods/goddesses parents want them to be.
Ide be careful in making these harsh criticisms of schools until youve looked more rigidly at Parents and how they raise their kids.

Originally Posted by goober

It's not so easy to blame the parents, almost everyone knows families with an honor student and a delinquent among the kids.
Stephen Pinker says a parent is less than 10% responsible for how a child turns out. His twins studies show that identical twins separated at birth are more alike than fraternal twins raised in the same house with the same parents, so he says more than 50% of a child's personality is genetically derived, and his peer group studies show that beginning at age 5, children are much more concerned about their peers feelings towards them than their parents feelings towards them.
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Originally Posted by timj219

I've got two in college now. The whole "good school" issue is way overblown IMO. Except for the social advantages conferred by an ivy or the grad school admission advantage granted by attendance at the grad school's own undergraduate program there really is very little difference in long term benefits between one college and another. My oldest has been accepted in 3 postgrad programs - one at an ivy - and he attends a state university. On top of that, good grades at my local community college almost guarantees acceptance as a transfer at many top schools in my state. So even kids who didn't concentrate on GPA in high school can still get into a good school.

Originally Posted by reino

The voucher program gives lazy parents another excuse to shirk personal responsibity. By sending kids to private schools I'm sure parents will be under the impression that F students who couldn't care less will turn into c students who want to be president.

Originally Posted by JHC

Well thanks for the reassurance.
She's in the IB program (if you know what that is), which means her grades are weighted anyway. She's doing pretty well at slightly better than a "B" average but I find myself pushing her harder and harder to forget about learning anything and bring home the "A"s. I've recently told her to start going to the library if she wants to learn anything and use her smarts to figure out how to get the grades by being a "good student".

I guess we'll survive.

Originally Posted by JHC

I'm not a fan of vouchers either because it ends up exaggerating the public school problem. But before you blame all this on the parents, consider what happens if you don't send your kid to school.

Originally Posted by timj219

My oldest loved the IB classes he took. Especially one class which focussed excusively on critical thinking. "Theory of Knowledge?" He did not take the enitre IB curriculum though and felt he gained more concrete benefit from the AP classes which enabled him to get college credit for freshman history and biology.
There is alot to be said for pursuing a wide range of interests like sports and arts etc and not obsessing about A's. After all, exclusive schools can fill their entire campus with nothing but straight A students if they wanted to. But who would want to go to a school like that? Only people who value grades above everything else in life. The couple of friends my boys have who went to Cornell (the nearest ivy to us) have been less happy with their choice than most of their other friends for that very reason.

Originally Posted by Ash

Here is a thought...50% of the children in public schools are below average intelligence. Aren't 50% of any group below average of whatever category is being discussed. You know the average....

Originally Posted by Steve

You claim that private schools are superior to public schools.

I don't intend this as a personal attack, but if your post is indicative of what can be expected to come out of a private school, I think I'd opt for a public school...

Originally Posted by metalted

I have attended, in order, public grade school, private gradeschool
private highschool, different private highschool, to a different public, to a different public.

I am sure I am pretty well aware the advantages and disadvantages to each.
Public schools are generally superior in terms of educating kids with special needs, and thats about it. sorry its the truth.

Public schools are overrun with bad apples, students and teachers. Private schools only get the best of the best. The way to fix public schools in my oppinion is for teachers to increase standards push the students, not be pushed by the students. and for Increasing security in the schools using draconian methods if necessary.

Students abuse things like split lunches, cutting classes to attend both lunch periods, flexible schedules, certain students going home early because thier classes are over. Other kids take advantage of this. Poor security monitering. I swear man it was so easy for me and everyone else to leave whenever iwanted to, come back whenever i wanted to, we used to sit in front of the school and smoke weed. I am telling you it was a breeze in public. The last public school i went to was very good with effective security and good teachers.

Originally Posted by metalted

you are absolutely right, particularly about hard drugs in privat schools. But still does not discount the fact that there are to many distractions in public schools. And that most kids DON'T want to learn. Most kids want to socialize. So teachers, security, should force them to behave or we will always be talking about the shitty public school system.