Isnt it pretty arrogant to assume Iraq is incapable of policing themselves, as if they were once a third world country or they were born yesterday?

Consider this: The various factions in Iraq will duke it out as America duked it out with the British and the Indians. Eventually someone will win. Might is right.

This is where you find the real reason of America: moderating an 'appropriate' government. We are hypocrites because we tell the Iraqi's they can decide for themselves who should govern amongst them. However, our presence dictates otherwise. We clearly do not want some of the stronger factions to govern Iraq. Blood will shed, scab over and shed again: america does not want an extremist muslim government in Iraq.

What do the Iraqi's want? Preservation of Muslim culture. Freedom to vote as they choose. Progress.

I cant say for sure, but I can tell you they dont want tanks, suicide bombings and even more evacuations from their home by the Americans. The presence of RED, WHITE and BLUE offends the candidates for Iraqi government. Is that just "too bad" - were here to stay? Or are we going to pull another blue-finger-painted election stunt with all the cameras and glitz and glamour just to convince the world "things are going great in Iraq"?

I say pull out. Let shit hit the fan. We fucked up. Admit it, and move on. Iraqi's have a taste of American freedom that should stick in their senses if they truly want it. All we can say is "we tried": to give them our democracy, to show how religion and freedom can co-exist.

Your take?

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I agree. I think no matter how long we stay things are going to change as soon as we leave. We are obviously there to keep a government that serves our interests in power. Regardless of what we do, shit will be hitting the fan in the near future.

I think these guys are going to have it out not matter when we leave. We may be able to minimize the violence but it is obvious we are not preventing it and we will have to leave eventually and when we do they will still kill each other. If we have learned anything about the Arab world it is that they hold grudges for a very long time.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

The Bush admin won't get involved in nation-building...it's just going: to oversee an election, rebuild it's infastructure, help them write a Constitution, ensure that people they like get in power, and police a Civil War.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

If I were Iraqi, ide be insulted at the thought that America and its allies are the only ones capable of securing a country.
People often forget how secure Iraq was BEFORE - its not like that knowledge suddenly disappeared.
Iraqis are smart, they can do it. America will not give them the chance. America wants to do things its way and no one elses.

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