Hank, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with all the pictures, but you seem to have gone to alot of effort to collect them. I'm left wondering why you are so concerned about other people's gender identity (as well as sexual orientation, but, really, that's a seperate issue). I mean, unless you want to date them, it isn't really an issue.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

Because you can post some pictures of people doing odd things doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with you is a "moonbat", Hank. I don't care which group you want to attack, you can find pictures that support your personal characterization of that group.

Most of this is aimed at me since I started this thread and I'm the one who has been PM'ing with you in an attempt to discover the genesis of your hate and intolerance. You seem to have a bunch of political stuff mixed in with a vague religious philosophy and you are using this interesting mix to pass judgment on people for activities YOU think must be sexual perversion. The problem is that you've been sold a bill of goods, you've been lied to big-time and long-term by your religious establishment and the polictical demogogues and sycophants who are making you dance to their tune.

Your position that transsexuals are just people practicing a sexual fetish is apparently based on something someone told you about Freud's theories. How is it that there are intersexed people born with the sex organs of both sexes? Or with mixed sex organs? Is that a product of Freud's theories too? Or are you denying the scientific fact that people are born with mixed gender attributes?

The sad thing for me is that you are very poorly educated and yet seem adamant that the things you learned 30 or 40 years ago MUST still be true--even though they weren't true when you learned, they were lies based on bigotry and ignorance. You keep making sweeping statements about subjects and give no proof or even evidence to support your claims. Your writing is not very clear, but you seem to be saying that the Catholic Church has not taken a stand against homosexuality ("that Catholics are against homos") when in fact the Catholics have been in the forefront of the attacks on homosexuals and transsexuals for several centuries. Joan of Arc was a transsexual who was burned at the stake--who do you suppose did that, Hank? I'll give you a hint: it was a large and powerful Church group. And your statement "We are the ones under attack" is laughable in light of the tens of thousands of homosexual and transgendered people that the Church has slaughtered over the millenia. Roving gangs of homosexual people don't go around beating up or killing Christians.

Resorting to vague accusations, wild claims, and photos downloaded off the net, will not cover the simple fact that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. From a painfully obvious lack of knowledge about the history of your own religion to a near total abscence of biological education, coupled with an angy and myopic vision of history, all overlaid with a what appears to be a real fear based on religious superstition, you come across as a person feigning certainty and righteous outrage to cover their own uncertainties and inadequacies. You are so sterotypical that you are practically a parody of a bigoted redneck. I know that what I write will not convince you nor even make you think, but there are others who will read our exchanges and see us--you and I--for what we are, and they are the ones to whom I speak.

The 60's were almost half a century ago, Hank, humans have learned a few things since then, the soi-distant mores of a bygone era and the faux-Divine pronouncements of Churchmen with loud voices and hair in their ears no longer have to rule our lives.

The mammals didn't kill the dinosaurs, they just waited until the dinosaurs died of old age.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Thanks for the fashion critique. I'd say the scout really looks like one of those old SS poster from WWII. Last one is beautiful, though. Amazing how different God made everyone - both inside and out. Intereresting how some people feel compelled to judge the creator's work.

Transgendered and gay people have different brain patterns - you bet they'll be finding a gene for it. That means it was part of the entire plan.

Besides - isn't Xtianity about loving and forgiving the sinner, the way you hope to be loved and forgiven?

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Bleh, some people take that 'in his own image' line way too seriously. I for the life of me can't remember the verse that says it, but there's another that states that images are deceiving. Man may appear like God, but he isn't God. Vengeance is the Lord's alone. God didn't make mistakes, the Bible made that abundantly clear.

That's one thing I've been wondering : for what reason would God have made 'the gay gene' as it were? I got a couple theories, do you have any?

Ayup, forgive the thief, don't call the cops, but that thief ain't goin anywhere near my cash drawer again. Oh, and while I may forgive the rapist, I'm not leaving them alone with my wife either. These are active reasons to react to a person's sin. If a sin does not affect their interactions with myself, that's between them and God. But, the Bible does encourage us to help others make themselves better people; to help them avoid sinning. And...one of those things is to point out that sin. Love the sinner, let them know they're sinning, encourage them to stop sinning, keep loving them if they 'fall off the wagon.' The Bible is very clear on this.

That being said, assuming that the anti-gay shit in the Bible isn't a willful violation of Rev 22:18-19 (which wouldn't surprise me in the least, my reasoning coming up), Jesus never mentioned one iota of it. A long time ago, Father Frank (awesome guy) ran a Bible study on the topic. Apparrantly, there are some serious problems with the fateful Leviticus verse (I don't have the Bible even close to memorized, and my Bible is at the shop.) Something about there being serious questions as to the translation of the words, not to mention it not appearing in a lot of the older versions...I'd research it myself, but, as far as I'm concerned, if that guy says it, it's good enough for me. That man was alone responsible for my beliefs, and if there's anyone I've ever met who was touched by God, it was him. Oh, and on a shittier note : his views were not popular. But, popularity does not right make. Unfortunately, those who owned the church were among the popular majority, and he was ousted. Fortunately, a bunch of the congregation (myself included) left, and the original Church went under. He rented a small shop, and we hold our services there. We won, they lost. I'm going to have to stop there, otherwise I'll be talking about the guy all night.

Oh, and where the hell in the Bible does it say ANYTHING about wanting to be a different gender is a sin? I called everybody I know and trust who's more knowledgable on the Bible than I am...and not a single one, Frank included, could come up with anything that even remotely suggests that.

So, here's an absolute - anyone who claims otherwise is adding to the Bible. According to the King James version, "If any man shall add onto these things, God shall add on to him the plagues that are written in this book." That IS a sin, and thus, those who are comitting it have been informed.

Jesus certainly mentioned that sex with someone other than your spouse is a sin in no remotely uncertain terms. So...I don't get it, do other Christians WANT the gay population to have to choose between sinning and not loving their chosen spouse? Sounds pretty stupid, but then again...humans are an inherently stupid lot.

Regards,
Lurker

PS Yeah, I went a bit off topic, oops.

Lurker - you need to come out more often. You've used two arguments I agree with. Why are some Xtians more concerned about gays than most of the ten commandments - let alone anything Jesus had to say. Bisexuality was a Roman norm, and gay soldiers love for one another was celebrated in all of the arts. Yet, Jesus never objected to it - never even mentioned it! And the King James bible has been through several translations - losing much in the process. To say nothing of the fact that the new testament was deliberately created 300 years after Jesusu dies, with equally valid gospels cut out for political reasons.

I've always assumed it was good for the gene pool to have extra adults on hand in any tribe. If all the adults were reproducing, it would be a bitch to survive. You need lots of hunters, and extra hands to process food, clothing, and shelter - let alone ceremonial needs.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

You and Non Sequitor are two of my favorite Christians.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

They “are” from WWII.
I collect Norman Rockwell, Peter Max and have 2 clowns painted by Red Skelton…
Yea, and maybe they’ll find one in people that like boobies, women’s feet or older women (Ummmm-arrggg, older women…).Not my call. Queers sin no more then I or any other person. You are told things wrong to keep those empowered by you!!! -well, empowered.
There are almost as many Catholics in the U.S. as there are women. If there really was a problem you would see much more then the few burninhellevangelists paraded before you.

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

If the whole transgender issue was just a fetish how would people be born with both sets of sex organs or mixed sex organs? There are millions of people with this kind of intersex condition--how can it be a fetish?

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Besides- a fetish is about what turns someone on sexually. Gender identity is only tangentally about sex (as an activity) at all.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

Yes, you are correct, but Hank learned somethings a long time ago and he's resistant to learning anything new. It's a common problem with old people. In this case "old" is not so much a function of age as it is one of mental and emotional ossification.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Lets put it this way. Away from the world you guys live in there are rules. He’s below the bible belt and at our mercy. He was fired. Case closed. No A.C.L.U. No press or riots nothing… He was simply fired and he has gone away.
The integrity and image of the city was at risk.
Look at the image of California and Canada. Do you want the world to laugh at us too…

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

Hey, whose in whose face here?
My home town of Tampa took down there Christmas decorations the same year they declared December pride month and placed the banners on the same hooks at the same time of year. I was embarrassed working the next county over when the guys would laugh and ask me if I attended Tampa’s pride festivals, they’ve empowered themselves on plants of hate at my, my family’s and my heritages expense and you dare tell me I‘m out of line for firing back??? These sickos are no ones concern until they go out of there way to make it everyone’s concern. A nudists will not be criticized. A nudist in the mall or my kids school will be… Try and understand this stuff.

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

I've got some news for you, the rest of the world has been laughing for years. You just don't hear it. Much of the rest of the world - apart from those dark places which are still driven by superstition - has come to grips with the range of expressions of human sexuality and have worked out "bad" and separated it from "okay". The political and religious obsession with sex in the US is viewed with amused interest. I mean the nation that has given us porno theatres is riven with foam-spitting debates about gay marriage. It's confusing.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

I actually didn't say you were out of line..and if that was 'firing back' at someone or something, then..well, I think you should aim more carefully.

What I did was ask why you get your panties in such a wad over other peoples gender identity and/ or sexuality. Form the above, I am inferring that it's because having openly gay people in your town makes you afraid that your coworkers will think you are gay. Funny, living around lots of blatantly straight people never made me afraid people would think I was straight...

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

Two things shine through your posts, Hank, fear and ignorance. It seems that your fear is too large to let you confront your ignorance. Transgendered doesn't mean homosexual, in much the same way that having a credit card doesn't mean that you are a Republican. Very different issues.

A lot of the stuff you learned in your youth isn't true, it wasn't then either, but most of us didn't know that. As time has marched on the human race has learned some things, especially about sexuality: homo/hetero/bi are normal variations in the human animal. We have also discovered that being transgendered is a birth defect caused by a misfire in the hormone sequencing during gestation AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUAL ORIENTATION. Hello? It's not about sexual attraction, it's about a person's internal sense of who they are.

Stop worrying about people asking you if you went to Pride, when black people were protesting in an attempt to be given legal rights bigots asked people if they were "nigger lovers" too, it was stupid and hateful then and that kind of thing is still stupid and hateful today. Ignore them with dignity or go to Pride so you can smile and say "yes" when some dimwit asks you.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.