That's helpful information. And it makes sense. I was listening to a debate on radio on this very topic some months ago. I remember a couple of younger people giving their views and one said, words to the effect of, hey in a few years it won't matter. That struck a chord with me. Of course it won't matter and in a sense it's beginning not to matter now, I suppose in terms of public policy we're just surfing through the last few waves of debate right now.

On the issue of the child's sexuality, I tend to think that parenting doesn't really matter. I'm not one of those who believes that anyone's sexuality is a matter of choice. I mean it might be simplistic but we are who we are (that's enlightening isn't it? ). I don't remember at puberty thinking, "now will I be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or whatever" and I don't remember my parents insisting on any particular orientation.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

I always loved the Miss Manners approach - she was aked by a hostess throwing a party how to introduce a gay couple to her invited guests. By their names - was the answer - and what kind of party do you throw hat everyone has to have their sexual relationships declared at the door. Leave to people what they are comfortable to share - and accept with an open heart

Hank I suspect there is a streak inside you that would love to do something equally outrageously right wing - what would the right wing version of the gay pride parade be? Not that sicko who scream outside of veteran funerals how the dead vets will roast in hell because america tolerates gays.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Unlike homosexuality, I think that transsexuality IS a defect. Homosexuality does no harm to the people who are, it has been documented in more than 1500 kinds of animals, homosexual people live normal lives undetectable from heterosexual lives--sexual orientation aside. This cannot be said of transsexuals.

I wish that I could say that being trans is just another variation in the human animal, but my experiences don't support that conclusion. With a mix of sex organs (male and female brains included) transpeople tend to be very confused by the mixed signals they get. Many of us never have anything approaching a normal hormone balance in our bodies, we develop on different timelines than normal, we suffer depression at a much higher rate than the general population, and we have much higher suicide rates. I hate having a male beard growing through the softer, thinner female facial skin, shaving twice a day to remain presentable is painful.

There are compensations however, statistically we tend to be above average in intelligence, and we have the opportunity to see the world from both sides of the sexual divide which can give us a very useful perspective when dealing with others in the role of peacemaker or shaman. But those things not withstanding, we end up not being male or female, we are like people without a country destined to live in a never-never land outside the general human experience.

I don't begrudge having this life and having to deal with the difficulties of being trangendered, but when I'm reincarnated I think I would like to be one or the other please.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

but really mare, how much of this is because we keep thinking that everyone is a 'man' or a 'woman'? 'male' or 'female'? Depression, suicide .... symptoms of people who are excluded and marginalised. Shaving? why should you have to (BTW I knew a bearded woman a few years ago - she was not trans - she just had excessive facial hair. Her decision to be who she was destroyed her marriage - and eventually - due to her kids embarassment - she had electrolysis to make herself presentable - why was this necessary? she was a good person, hairy face (like a thin beard) or not. She certainly didn't become happier with herself because she conformed to the sterotype of what mothers were supposed to look like)

LOL - I could start thinking about depilation generally - WHY do women shave their legs, wax their pubes, their armpits etc ... all in the name of what it means to be female when ITS NOT what it means to be female?

hormones - a lot of women I know have had the most incredible imbalances over long periods of time - sometimes due to cycles, sometimes due to chldbirth, sometimes perimenopausal ... I know women who after a hysterectomy have said they now KNOW what its like to be normal ....

I am not trying to minimise the experiences of people such as yourself - just to point out that the boxes we are squeezed into at both ends of the spectrum are wrong for a lot of people - nobody more so than trans people, but they are wrong nontheless.

They force many of us to be other than who we are, to a greater or lesser degree.

Would people be so confused if it was just OK to be who we are? Would they feel so depressed? Would you feel so ALONE? (Which is why the work you do is so important - because you help people not to feel alone)

Of course, for some (many?) to decide they are definitely male - or female - is their choice - and their right. But maybe sometimes people can be forced into that before they are really ready ... just because they cannot be comfortable in a society that says you MUST be one or the other....

I think that people who are 'in between' can give us insights into a whole range of things - its no accident that 'the third sex' in many societies were shamans.

we should value them - not belittle them or force them to make choices because we don't allow room for them in our society.

I support the right of trans people to make the choices that best suit them, but I think we also need to put gender and sexuality where it belongs, and not use it as the major factor defining who we are.

Rither fif presidrnt Fussh. Your world dosn't exist...

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

Evil has given you porn, the same evil that moraly guids the state of California to declare national honor pron day. (Yes they didd that...). Beleveibng in super natural simply means beyound our physical laws. I've seen them broken on several occasionss. I come from a world where total strangers would tell you to tuck in your shirt tale or get a hair cut. A world to where people would dress up to go to the grocery store. We were proud of our America as our schools and neihborhoods. We maintained image and integrity. Today they make light of those days with Brady bunch movies, Plesentville ect. But I assure you, a world without rules is a world without civilization. He's living a sexual fantassy that has been normalixed nothing more. He can do it on his own time without calling a presss confrence, havig a parade in his honor or demanding school children be taught it's okay againsst the teachings of there parents. Some people get cosmetic surgery nose jobss ect. A sex change is no more then I wanting to be the greatest pornstar in history by having 112 donated dicks transplanted on my body...

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

Ease up on the drugs, Hank, you've become completely incoherent. Watch out, the next step is to start foaming at the mouth.

How many American soldiers died yesterday? How many today? These are human beings not just numbers. How many Iraqis were caught in the crossfire and died as collateral damage? These too are human beings, not just numbers. Otto's observations look correct to me.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

It would be funny if you didn't really believe it, now it's just sad. Do you still believe that mentally ill people are possessed by demons? That left-handed people were touched by the Devil? That a woman having her period is unclean and must be sequestered? Where do you draw the line on believing in these relgious myths? Do you still burn animals on an altar because the Bible says God likes the smell?

Poor Hank, it must be a pretty scary world for you to have to hide behind ancient religious myths to feel secure. Just a suggestion, before you have the 112 "thingies" sewed on, you might want to carefully consider where to have them attached or people might laugh at you and call you a "dickhead".

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

I agree 100% with the whole last part of your post, it's all true, and it doesn't make any difference at all that it is true. It ain't the way the world works and I can't make the world work differently. My absolute BEST efforts to "pass" will never be enough, I am 6 feet tall, I have large hands and men's size 14 feet (just TRY to buy a woman's shoe in that size), a deep voice, an Adam's Apple, and masculine facial bone structure, but I'm living my life as who my brain says I am: a woman. My brain works on estrogen, testosterone makes me crazy and suicidal. It's really stupid that the Hanks of the world are convinced that this is some kind of weird sexual fetish when in fact I gave up the ability to have any kind of sexual response just so that I could live the rest of my life as a woman. Sex is irrelevant, but like the vast majority of people, Hank's too obsessed with it to be able to believe that when it's explained to him and not smart enough to figure it out on his own.

Women are very perceptive and any one of them who actually looks at me will recognize that I am trans, but most women are not hysterical about it like men and they are not as insanely violent as men either. The only saving grace in this process is that most men are oblivious, if you have long hair, bumps in your shirt, no beard, and you are too old to be sexually attractive, then they don't even look at you--thank God!

Don't misunderstand me, Dais, I am "out" and working for trans recognition every day, but I cannot spend every hour of my life fighting the Hanks and Kinetics of the world, I have to earn a living just like everyone else. My business partner (who is also trans) and I don't hide who we are and we lose business because of it, we get hassled some (Home Depot has not always been trans-friendly) but we keep on working towards public enlightenment by living normal, visible lives in our community and by speaking to any group that invites us.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

In a way, I agree, but in another, No. and I make a strong comparrision to the effects of Child molestation. In both cases, there is devestation as a physical result in "MOST" cases

but in many others, IMHO it is more a case of the person (child regarding molestation) and the person (adult or otherwise in the case of transgenders ) who feels that they are or would be looked down upon because of their condition, or as a result of what has happened to them. In short the psychological damage that results, rather than the physical manifestations.

If I am understanding you correctly you are saying that at least some of the opprobrium trans-people experience is just in their heads, they expect it so they experience it. Correct? If not, restate your position.

You are probably right to some extent and it will vary from person to person depending on their life experiences and their personality make-up. But, just like some racism may have been nothing more than a perception in the mind of the person, there really was a lot of racist stuff done. And there really are a lot of discriminatory actions taken against trans-people, I see it nearly every day, but then doing outreach and knowing hundreds of trans-folks, I am in a position to see it a lot.

My brother hasn't spoken a civil word to me in more than 4 years for instance, I have been uninvited to every church in my town, my friend was beaten by her parents and a lot of other people to the point where she has no front teeth, damaged kidneys, and a crippled back. A trans-woman I know was alternately beaten and raped by her Father as she was growing up, and the REMEMBERING OUR DEAD website does have a long list of murdered trans-people. Everybody has trouble, my sorrows are no more than anyone else's, but they are MY sorrows and I do what I can to educate people so that no one else has to go through the pain that I have just because of religious bigotry and human stupidity.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

She wore armor, and was burnt at the stake for that. But I have heard nothing suggesting that it was sexual or was a preference beyond a skirt and no armor isn't the best way to go into battle. The history I know on the matter is that that was all they could nail Joan on and so that was their excuse, it was not the cause, the cause was that she became powerful.

Surely there are easier ways to address a desire to be a member of the opposite sex then to don a suit of armor and go charging into battle. Could it possibly be because she loved her country instead? It would certainly appear the simplest answer.

The trial transcripts don't support your suppositions.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

I realize that she was burnt at the stake for that (officially), but do you have quotes from her which would suggest that her chosen dress was anything other then an issue of expediency or necessity? Further, how much stock do you put on the transcripts written by an inquisition? I'm sure by accepting all such transcripts we could also likely prove a number of other things.

After she returned from the wars she still adamantly refused to wear women's clothing and so she was condemned by the Church and burned at the stake. There were politics involved in the whole process too, but the official records cite her refusal to wear proper clothing as the cause of her demise.

If you wish to doubt that trial transcripts, then there is nothing I can say to you, I wasn't there and all I know is what I have read. Everything I have read about her behavior is consonant with a FtM trans-person, the Church documents condemn her for her choice in clothing and require her death at the stake. More than that I do not know.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.