So we're talking about dinosaurs now ?

No, I see. We're just following the example offered by members like "mare" whose only goal is to activate by irritation.

Fair enough.

Carry on then.

I will if you will, Thane. You have posted more viscious tripe on this site than most people have and you have admitted to me that you do it to annoy people. On some threads you have made a positive contibution but on every single thread dealing with gay or transpeople you have been a bigot of the lowest order. Unlike some of the simple people that you incite, I know you are not stupid, and what you get out of posting the stuff you do on these threads I don't know--if it's just recreation, then you deserve all the flack that you receive.

You get on this thread that I started and give me static about my attitude, but what have you contributed to this post but more of the same crap you have posted on all of the threads on this subject?

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

I’m beginning to wonder. All of these movements designed to bring chaos and anarchy to Americas infrastructure seem to be normalized to ya’ll as some ideology or quest.

The city officer lost his appeal and is still fired.
Take this at face value. Your boss wouldn’t allow you to wear a spaceman outfit to work either.

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

Hank - you might be having fun old son but you're overcooking it

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

You are probably old enough to remember when left-handed people were forced to write with the right hand? Eventually it was figured out that right or left-handedness was just the way people were wired. But it used to be believed that left-handed people were evil and emotionally unstable, and they were denied jobs too.

I don't know for certain about homosexuality, but all of the current research shows that it is a genetic process that takes place before birth. Being transsexual I know more about, it's a malfunction of the hormone signals during gestation and it produces people--physically and mentally--who are a mix of sexes and genders. It's a biological process.

The idea that any of this is designed to bring anarchy or chaos is just fear speaking. Gay people are just people like yourself and giving them the same legal rights that you have will not cause chaos. Ditto for trans-people.

Your comment that, "The city officer lost his appeal and is still fired." is nothing more than the same kind of bigotry that black people were subject to a few years ago. And I get to wear women's clothing to work because I am female and legally so according to all my documents. All the transgendered people who work at this company are allowed to present as the gender they feel they are and wear clothing appropriate thereto because I'm the President of the company. We do not discriminate against people on the basis or sexual orientation or gender presentation.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

I speak the truth. All of these movements were devised as a revolution. There is no homo race anymore then there is a man/boy sex race (Who by the way are organizing as we speak.).

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

"Revolution" suggests massive, wholesale change. But all that's sought is equality. Remember "equality"? It's about women being able to vote, just like men could. It's about blacks being allowed to vote, just like whites could. Those concepts might have seemed revolutionary to the reactionaries who fought them but does anyone turn a hair now? No. Same thing will happen with transgendered people and the same thing will happen with same-sex marriages, future generations will look back and ask what the hell the fuss was about. But it has to start somewhere and it may as well start now. I can't remember who said it but I remember the aphorism that "nothing is so powerful as an idea who's time has come." Now's as good a time as any.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

Good post, Diuretic. The one thing that's holding people back is fear. Hank's comment about "..they're organizing right now," is a perfect example. It's like Hank sees millions of perverts organizing like a militia preparing to take over and force him to... do something, I don't know what, but it'll be icky. Hank, like most of the frightened people, always focuses on the few crazies and extrapolates to the whole population--thus scaring the bejesus out of himself. Therein lies the problem with believing your own press realeases, it becomes a postive feedback loop and you end up totally ignorant and too scared to even think, let alone learn. Frightened people are very dangerous, they are unpredictable, irrational, and often lose their perspective so completely that they can abandon whatever moral center they once had and resort to any kind of violent behavior. The 3 young men who dragged the T-girl into a garage, beat her with a shovel, and strangled her, come to mind.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

For the Hank's of the world here is a story about semi-identical twins that has a bearing on this thread. It's biology, Hank, not a plot cooked up in the 60's.

BBC NEWS | Health | Semi-identical twins discovered

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Yes, I saw that earlier this week on news@nature.com. I thought about posting it, but I can't link to those stories, because they require a subscription.

There's a slighlty different, but more common event that happens in cattle where male and female (fraternal) twins share a placenta; the female becomes partly masculinized through placental exposure to testosterone, and is called a 'freemartin' (I've no idea where the name comes from). Mostly, it's a pain for farmers because she's infertile, but it's still interesting. I don't know whether it has any paralells in humans.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

Knowing that you have a friend, I would like to recommend a new book that was just published TRANSITION AND BEYOND by Reid Vanderburgh. Reid is a FtM (female to male transsexual) and a Master's level therapist specializing in trans-issues. His book is outstanding, very complete, very detailed, and very much up to date. I know Reid and can attest to the fact that he is a very smart and well-educated person. The book is funny, poignant, uplifting, heartbreaking, and informative. Published by Q Press.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Thanks, I'll check it out. C has probably heard of it (heck ,he migh have it allready), but if not, then I could send it along to him, too. He's pretty active in the Seattle trans community...helping plan a convention, which I realise I don't actually know if it's about trans folk in general, or just FTM- do things get spilt up that way, like the gay and lesbian communities so often do, or does everyone work more together? The trans friends I've heard him talk about have all been FTM.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin

Yes, they often do get split up along gender lines because we are so different. They are running towards the very things that we have been trying so hard to get away from.

One of the problems that I personally have had is with FtM's who are on testosterone and going through what amounts to male puberty. They can be just as painful and tiresome as any 14-17 year old male. Reid has said that he has an advantage over bio-males in that he can control the amount of testosterone he has to live with each day. When he wants a little more peace and quiet he just cuts back on the dosage.

Don't get me wrong, I like the FtM's fine and I have a lot of sympathy for them because I went through male puberty too. It's just that as I approach 60, I find 30 or 40 or 50 year olds going through male puberty to be very tiring. Our company is having to deal with a FtM right now who is actually a fairly nice person, but he's in his first year of testosterone and he's trying to be the stud duck all the time. It's unfortunate to relate, but he's burning a lot of bridges with people in his testosterone rush.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

[quote=MareTranquility;960950]So it's somewhat like the gay and lesbian communities- there are issues where the two work together, obviously, but many issues and aspects of the culture that are very different between the two.

I know what you mean; well, sort of. C and I weren't talking much when he started T (long story); it's actually been about three years, though he stopped taking it for a long while, and just recently started again. He told me about feeling uncharacteristically agressive (and ...um, teenage boy-like in other ways, too). It seems to be leveling off now, though, for the most part. It's funny, because I've got a son who is right now also going through puberty, so I can see the similarities- even in things like the way their voices have changed as they drop.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
-Anias Nin