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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
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drgoodtrips drgoodtrips is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by gem View Post
It's enough to make you want to puke, isn't it?

Gem
So, your contention is that "socializing" something is the most effective way to eliminate corruption and red tape? It seems to me that the title "Another good reason we need health care reform" would have turned the title/post combo into something other than a non sequitur.

And, there is legal recourse for such situations - if the woman is truly being robbed, then she and her family should have little trouble recovering damages in a suit. Keep in mind, I'm not sticking up for insurance companies as they exist - just reacting to your rather schmaltzy premise.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
Never, I repeat NEVER forget, that the neorepub agenda is composed of PROVING that elected government CAN'T work and set about PROVING it every time they get in power. Do you really think that the incompetent clusterfuck handling of the Katrina disaster follow-up just happened? Never listen to what the liars say, always watch what they do.
So, you're saying that "neorepubs" with a congressional majority and a sitting POTUS, deliberately botched Katrina's cleanup and suffered the ensuing PR disaster to prove some theoretical governance philosophy? That's quite a tale.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
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Evil_inKarlate Evil_inKarlate is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

Quote:
Never, I repeat NEVER forget, that the neorepub agenda is composed of PROVING that elected government CAN'T work and set about PROVING it every time they get in power.
As opposed to the sensible agenda, which is to let whomever is in power at the time prove that corrupt government doesn't work?

Quote:
Do you really think that the incompetent clusterfuck handling of the Katrina disaster follow-up just happened?
No, first you needed a corrupt Democrat-run inspection team, then an incompetent Democrat mayor, then an inept Democrat governor. THEN you needed to add the ineffective Republican appointee.

Quote:
Never listen to what the liars say, always watch what they do.
Or, in the case of legislators, don't listen to what they say their laws will do, watch what they do. Mostly ill for 60+ years, regardless of majority party, and quite possibly longer than that.


Perhaps if people spent more time trying to solve issues and less time demonizing the other half of the problem, we'd make some progress towards a better life...
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Last edited by Evil_inKarlate; 03-26-2007 at 04:31 PM.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
Johnny K Johnny K is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
So, you're saying that "neorepubs" with a congressional majority and a sitting POTUS, deliberately botched Katrina's cleanup and suffered the ensuing PR disaster to prove some theoretical governance philosophy? That's quite a tale.
Wow, pretty savy of you to get it Trips. You get a Gold Star.

Quite frankly, there is nothing so vile and evil, so completely inhuman, that the band of self-agrandizing crooks that have stolen the Republican Party wouldn't do in their pursuit of power.

Roll your freakin' eyes all you want,

Last edited by Johnny K; 03-26-2007 at 05:03 PM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
Wow, pretty savy of you to get it Trips. You get a Gold Star.

Quite frankly, there is nothing so vile and evil, so completely inhuman, that the band of self-agrandizing crooks that have stolen the Republican Party wouldn't do in their pursuit of power.

Roll your freakin' eyes all you want, {edited}
Now, do you have anything besides vitriol to support your claims?
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Last edited by drgoodtrips; 03-26-2007 at 07:58 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
MareTranquility MareTranquility is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
And socializing the long term care industry is the only solution?

Answer me this - when has creating a giant government bureaucracy ever made anything cheaper or better?

Matt
My Father has health insurance through the government because he is a retired postal worker. Their coverage (Mom and Dad) is excellent, even when he had to have open heart surgery they paid for almost all of it. They have very good prescription coverage and the vast percentage of all their medical care is paid for completely. At least in this case a government program is working and my parents are being cared for as all Americans SHOULD be cared for. Of course my Dad worked for the post office for decades and paid into his retirement fund for all that time too, but he also gets a pension.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by gem View Post
To make sure that the sick, infirm and elderly get the medical help they need, and to keep those people from getting ripped off for tens of thousands of dollars by businesses whose only concern and motive is "profit".

Gem
You didn't answer my question. How would socialized medicine make things any more effecient? What policies implemented do you think would make things work smoother and in the better interests of everyone? How would it be set up to serve these glorious ends you speak of? How do you know corruption would not exist, or people getting ripped off would not exist?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
Diuretic Diuretic is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
You didn't answer my question. How would socialized medicine make things any more effecient? What policies implemented do you think would make things work smoother and in the better interests of everyone? How would it be set up to serve these glorious ends you speak of? How do you know corruption would not exist, or people getting ripped off would not exist?
There are many effective models around the world that the US can learn from.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

How can anyone that watched the US government's collective response to Katrina want to put it in charge of their healthcare?

No, thanks.

Matt
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by gem View Post
Wrong, Iam. I have considered it, as I have considered the problems of foodstamp and welfare abuse and thefts. They are a definite and very real problem. But the best we can do is tackle the problems as they arise, on an individual basis. What you haven't considered is that establishing federal programs to create bureaucracies to prevent those abuses and thefts have resulted in taxpayers paying far more money to try and prevent those abuses and thefts than the abuses and thefts have cost the taxpayers themselves.
Basically what the neocons and conservatives have done in regards to this situation is to cut off their nose to spite their face.
The problems you mentioned are very real, but the solutions that the neocons and conservatives would propose to counter these problems would create even more problems than now exist. But that is nothing we haven't seen before now, in a variety of ways, is it?

Gem
Beg to differ gem, but there already exist bureaucracies watching over Nursing homes - they can't do their job. As with all bureaucratic agencies - they cost 10 times what they should, they underpay the people who actually do the work, they are understaffed and under-motivated.
Nursing homes have been problematical for decades, and whether "neocons or liberals" were in office - that hasn't changed.

Government is not the answer to most problems - the entire history of mankind gives witness to this..over and over and..
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by gem View Post
To make sure that the sick, infirm and elderly get the medical help they need, and to keep those people from getting ripped off for tens of thousands of dollars by businesses whose only concern and motive is "profit".

Gem
Seems to me that the situation could be addressed by people simply deciding to not do business with Conseco...
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
MareTranquility MareTranquility is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Seems to me that the situation could be addressed by people simply deciding to not do business with Conseco...
The sad thing is that one does not know when signing up whether the company will pay when you need the money. Most people get involved with an insurance company and pay premiums for years or decades before finding out that the company is crooked. Other times people sign up with a reputable company that down the line gets bought out by Conseco and they get sold down the river without even knowing it.

The whole argument that universal health care CAN'T WORK!!! Ignores the fact that almost every other civilized, 1st world, capitalist/socialist country on this planet has some kind of medical care for all of it's people and their systems work better than ours. If they can figure out how to do it, why can't we? I think the defeatist attitude is the biggest problem, not the government.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007
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la lorientaise la lorientaise is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

Whatever about private/public I think everyone is entitled to essential life saving healthcare (Free of charge).
No matter what I know in my country they would treat me before they would ask me how I was paying. The healthcare isnt fantastic nor is it in England but you wouldn t go untreated or be hounded for payment (a stress one could do without during recovery)

Healthcare is all well and good when you can afford insurance but what if you don t have it? Are you left to die? Or be hounded by creditors for the rest of your life?

What happens if you need chemo for cancer but you have no insurance- would they insure you after you were diagnosed? What on earth happens in these cases?
What about abandoned children? would they be faced with medical bills when they are 18?

What about someone who is obese or has a disease etc? Can they be refused insurance? If they are what do they do?
Everyone has the right to life therefore life saving operations should be paid for by the state as its their duty to protect our safety.
I don t understand how a country could be so content to throw money on a war yet begrudge the idea of essential health care for all.
How does this work?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007
Johnny K Johnny K is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by la lorientaise View Post
Whatever about private/public I think everyone is entitled to essential life saving healthcare (Free of charge).
No matter what I know in my country they would treat me before they would ask me how I was paying. The healthcare isnt fantastic nor is it in England but you wouldn t go untreated or be hounded for payment (a stress one could do without during recovery)

Healthcare is all well and good when you can afford insurance but what if you don t have it? Are you left to die? Or be hounded by creditors for the rest of your life?

What happens if you need chemo for cancer but you have no insurance- would they insure you after you were diagnosed? What on earth happens in these cases?
What about abandoned children? would they be faced with medical bills when they are 18?

What about someone who is obese or has a disease etc? Can they be refused insurance? If they are what do they do?
Everyone has the right to life therefore life saving operations should be paid for by the state as its their duty to protect our safety.
I don t understand how a country could be so content to throw money on a war yet begrudge the idea of essential health care for all.
How does this work?
Most of your questions can be answered by understanding the republican's basic philosophy on EVERYTHING. "I got mine, even if I stole it, screw everyone else. I am all that matters."
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007
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emptypepsi emptypepsi is offline
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Re: Another good reason why we need socialized healthcare in America.

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Originally Posted by Diuretic View Post
There are many effective models around the world that the US can learn from.
List them. Which ones do you feel would be particularly helpful to the point of overhauling the entire system? Please - Support the claim.
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