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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2007
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
Well, you'd probably get the kid vote, but I suspect a few weeks of all the rugrats running free and causing havoc would be enough. Or should we abolish child labor laws, and put them to work in factories?

Even in the 3rd world most countries try to provide a rudimentary education for the kids. And the US would be a 3rd world country within a few years of this proposal being enacted.
Just ignore him and hopefully he'll go away. He's working on about a 5th-grade level at this point.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

The answer is to get rid of public education. As it is, people are, by way of taxes, already forced to pay for publics schools. So, they are inclined to go to those schools, as opposed to pay for the public ones AND the private ones. Remove them, and you put back more money into the hands of families, which means more people will choose to go to private schools. The increased family income (due to less taxes) will make them willing to pay more for private schools, which means private schools will have more money to pay for more qualified teachers.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
steveox steveox is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Why should i pay it? I DONT EVEN HAVE CHILDREN!!! Like this pathetic 1/2% Sales tax some local goverments are doing goes towards schools.I say RAISE THE GOD DAMN PROPERTY TAXES.Families who own homes should pay towards Schools!! NOT SINGLE PEOPLE WHO DONT EVEN HAVE CHILDREN!!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
Nemo Nemo is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Public education is every citizen's responsibility.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
steveox steveox is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

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Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
Public education is every citizen's responsibility.
Nope,,Parents should pay for schools.. THEY WANTED CHILDREN!!! Suppose someone passes a Law on taxpayers have to pay for Animal Hospitals? You wouldnt like that now would you?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

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Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
Public education is every citizen's responsibility.
Financing my car and extravagant lifestyle is every citizen's responsibility.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
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Josepha Josepha is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
The answer is to get rid of public education. As it is, people are, by way of taxes, already forced to pay for publics schools. So, they are inclined to go to those schools, as opposed to pay for the public ones AND the private ones. Remove them, and you put back more money into the hands of families, which means more people will choose to go to private schools. The increased family income (due to less taxes) will make them willing to pay more for private schools, which means private schools will have more money to pay for more qualified teachers.
And, of course, these qualified teachers will magically pop into existance

In point of fact, private schools pay considerably less than public schools because they have a controlled pool of students. There are not nearly enough private schools to take the overload that will come when all the public schools close - and a lot of businesses will take a thumpin as parents miss work to take care of kids. Then there's the increased cost of police to deal with roving bands of teens and preteens who are not in school - as well as the petty vandalism and shoplifting.

Can you name one successful industrialized nation that does not provide education for it's younger citizens? This is the recipe for 3rd world devolution!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
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Josepha Josepha is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

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Originally Posted by steveox View Post
Nope,,Parents should pay for schools.. THEY WANTED CHILDREN!!! Suppose someone passes a Law on taxpayers have to pay for Animal Hospitals? You wouldnt like that now would you?
Going by that logic, I really shouldn't have to pay any taxes. I haven't called the police all year, or the firemen. I tend to prefer used bookstores to library fines, and I haven't had any need for a passport. I don't take the bus, so screw public transport. I see no reason to pay for jails unless someone gaurantess I will be a victim once the inmates are all released. I only drive on a few roads, so I shouldn't have to pay for road mainenance and I haven't had any reason to deal with any local, state , or federal govt entities.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
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Josepha Josepha is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Financing my car and extravagant lifestyle is every citizen's responsibility.
No, but running your business without an educated workforce is going to be a challenge - as will paying for increased criminal mischief.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
And, of course, these qualified teachers will magically pop into existance
No, they will be looking for work after the public schools close down. The rest will study to become teachers, and now more competent people will have a reason to do it.
Quote:
In point of fact, private schools pay considerably less than public schools because they have a controlled pool of students.
I believe I already addressed this. Families who use private schools have less money to spend on them because a large portion of their paycheck goes to public schools.
Quote:
There are not nearly enough private schools to take the overload that will come when all the public schools close
So you don't think new private schools will appear when demand increases?
Quote:
- and a lot of businesses will take a thumpin as parents miss work to take care of kids. Then there's the increased cost of police to deal with roving bands of teens and preteens who are not in school - as well as the petty vandalism and shoplifting.
I guess we should open more government-sponsored bars. If criminals get drunk, they won't be able to go out and rob people!
Quote:
Can you name one successful industrialized nation that does not provide education for it's younger citizens? This is the recipe for 3rd world devolution!
So if it has not been done before, then it can't be done?
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
No, but running your business without an educated workforce is going to be a challenge
^^^Assumption that new private schools won't be created to meet the demand for private education.
Quote:
- as will paying for increased criminal mischief.
^^^Claim that we should run public facilities just to occupy people.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2007
MareTranquility MareTranquility is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
If criminals get drunk, they won't be able to go out and rob people!

So if it has not been done before, then it can't be done?
I think you should spend more time with drunks before you institute a policy like that.

Maybe not, but on the other hand perhaps it hasn't been done for a good reason.

Somehow we seem to have lost the concept of a social contract or any idea that we might all be in this together. In it's place we appear to have adopted an insanely ruthless and competitive "me first" philosophy. This looking-out-for-#1, dog-eat-dog policy is a prescription for disaster. Children are our future, with all it's difficulties and inefficiencies a public school system open to all has worked better than any other system so far.
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Last edited by MareTranquility; 04-03-2007 at 10:07 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MareTranquility View Post
I think you should spend more time with drunks before you institute a policy like that.
How about public video gaming centers or public opium dens?
Quote:
Maybe not, but on the other hand perhaps it hasn't been done for a good reason.
Glad you agree that you tried to argue that with a fallacy.
Quote:

Somehow we seem to have lost the concept of a social contract or any idea that we might all be in this together. In it's place we appear to have adopted an insanely ruthless and competitive "me first" philosophy. This looking-out-for-#1, dog-eat-dog policy is a prescription for disaster.
And you know this, how?
Quote:
Children are our future, with all it's difficulties and inefficiencies a public school system open to all has worked better than any other system so far.
Yes, and George W. Bush is the best US president currently. What is your point?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2007
CowboyTed CowboyTed is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

this is a bit crazy. Every 1st worlds country need an educated workforce. Look at Ireland. We pay our teachers very well and they earn the money producing one of the finest workforces in the world.

The CEO Intel Ireland(employ 8000, small country) comments reguarly on the workforce and says our workforce is very good and to not drop standards. They continually lobby the goverment for more money for public education (from primary to third level) because they know we a training there future employees. This goes ditto for Dell, Microsoft, Pharma sector,....

Countries working in the knowleadge industry are heavily investing in education for all. Your education is decided on your academic ability rather than how wealthy your parents are. Third level education is free with grants given poor for living expenses. We a lifetime of taxes at the there higher wage to get the money back. It's an investment.
This is a classless education which offers every kid the chance.

More money is being spent on poorer areas than richer one as they need the money more. They also have the lowest scores. The schools are considered to be the product of the enviroment when it comes to results but investing more can change those results.

It's not perfect and we still have areas in the country which are living with out hope but the attitude is not to give up and brand schools as failures. The determination is to invest in these and turn them around by offering after hour study facilities and feeding the kids proper meals.

No child should be burdened so early in life by hopelessness. We should give them all a fair shot at a productive career.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2007
Nemo Nemo is offline
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Re: How to fix education?

The way to fix education is by reforming the curriculum. In this, the importance of education depends on what value one places on knowledge. Knowledge to fit purpose is certainly of value, for to be without it is to live in a world without light; but by the same token, to pursue useless knowledge (e.g., “Intelligent Design”) is worse than worthless, it is a waste of precious time. See Herbert Spencer, "What Knowledge is of Most Worth," Westminster Review (July 1859). Good schools are scarce, and useful knowledge invaluable. Individually, we are as much as we know; and as a nation, our democracy is dependent on an enlightened citizenry, which justifies placing a premium on education. What form that education takes - what curriculum our schools provide - is a matter, if not all important, at least essential to everyone.
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