And every 1st world nation probably needs cars. Should we give everyone a car just because they live here? Free homes?You are assuming that education will disappear forever once public education is gone. That is simply untrue, according to the free market and basic economics.If you feel every kid even deserves the chance, then you are free to pay for it personally.Since when does need = entitlement? Why do the poor and incompetent get to leech of the rich and successful just because they claim they "need" it?"We should?" You have not explained why I owe anything to total strangers. How about this. We should give me a brand new car and 500 liters of gasoline. How about it? Will everyone pitch in? I feel I'm entitled.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Last I checked, the majority of the US voters still voted for retards in the republican and democratic party. I'd say in terms of maintaining an education set of voters by the education system has been a complete failure. I mean, look who is in office right now! The popular vote is just that, a popularity contest based on who has the better ads. I could accomplish that with no education at all.

Likewise, if education is oh so important, then people won't have problems chipping in privately.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Like it or not your live a society. Everyday you benefit from a largely successful public education system. Who taught the kid at McDonalds to count, who taught the engineers to built that car..

So unless you want to live in a desert isand you are benefiting from the public education..

You want to punish the most vunerable in society for the failing of the parents.. You methology would lead to rich kids getting educated while poor ones would suffer. Not bright kids getting educated and less academically inclined to do more manual/skill based work. Our society would suffer as a whole, the Americain society would suffer badly to the more educated societies in europe and asia. The US would lack the pool of top educated and bright workforce to keep it at the top and would be dragged down. The multinationals would leave the US because they wouldn't be able to find the desired workforce leaving only the less desirable low paid jobs in the US.

There is the basic economics...

As you failed to notice the goverment is actually investing the kids and takes the reward in a lifetime of taxes at a higher rate than if the individual in uneducated. It's a post pay system.

Could be a public school. Could be a private school. Could be a private university. Could be he learned it on the Internet. Are you saying people will stop learning if we get rid of public education? So, what is your point? Right now, the government takes my money and forces me to pay for a specific school. If it didn't, I would have that money to spend on a school of my choice.Actually, I don't want to be punished for their parents' incompetence. I'm not punishing all the starving kids in Africa by not donating all of my money to them, am I?They already sort of do. People with money get the better cars, better homes, better computers, etc...You are, once again, assuming that more people asking for private education wouldn't result in private institutions coming in.You are assuming that if the government doesn't take our money and pay for schools, that we won't be able to use that money to pay for schools. Is the government somehow more capable handing over money?You are assuming that a lack of public education wouldn't cause private educators to open private schools.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

There you go - you've got the educational system that you want.

I believe in public education, and it can be useful if the kid WANTS to learn. That is up to the parents raising the kids to give a damn. Public school should not be abolished, IMO. In the meantime, if a parent wants to private school or home school their kid, it should be encouraged. If one is afraid of religious tones in the private schools, teach your kid to think for his/her self and there should be no issue.

But to say that a populace goes uneducated without it is inaccurate as well. I learned how to speak Spanish fluently from my friends and parents. On the other hand, I know a girl who took 5 years of it in school and doesn't speak a lick. I learned the basics about nutrition from my parents growing up, and the details of it I taught myself. Meanwhile, other health care profesionals I work with (judging from their diet and lifestyle) haven't the slightest clue on health/nutrition. Basic Biology, health, Government, Philosophy came from discussion and self-teaching as well. If raised to care about learning, a population can do well (not the greatest, though) without public education.

Well Well Well...looks like we've got a first class disagreement. A charter school, at least as they are run in MY area, are placed both first, second, third, even fourth and fifth, making a clean sweep. They don't just take the best and brightest students. They take it and improve it. While at charter schools, the students raise their state testing stats faster than any other schools in the state.

They also operate at a VERY low comparative cost to what it costs to run your average school. This is because the average high school mismanages its funds on administrators. Superfluous staff and perks are the name of the game. America spends more per student than any other country. What do we have to show for it?

Obviously, Charter schools are a small staff institution, a bureaucrat's nightmare (actual efficiency! *gasp* No red tape! *wheeze*). They can also hire and fire teachers as they see fit. Teachers are almost impossible to fire from the state, especially with the unions in firm control. It took more than five years to extract a known child molester who was molesting kids during his job. They can also kick out students. If they don't want to do their best, they are gone. This fosters a great learning environment.

The only reason Charter schools don't appear to have made any progress is because of manipulated data. Yes, charter schools don't appear to do better. But consider who they target. Most charter schools are small, and unlike the ones that take the top 5 positions in our state, are targeting the at-risk kids.

If charter schools weren't any good, then we wouldn't have a 1000 person waiting list in addition to the 125 we accept every year to my high school of 500. Parents know that their children will get a great education at a charter school. The ones not designed for at-risk children, such as the one I go to, have an 80% off-to-college rate. And we're in fifth (out of the five designed to not target at-risk children, FYI). The top had a 98 percent its first graduating-to-college class when my sister went there.

Private sector teachers aren't actually that great. The teachers are...not stiff, but certainly unused to dealing with high school students. They are talented, but not used to teaching what has become second nature to them.

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Sever the line to the guilty past
To the ones who brought us nothing
Spoke of futures brave and proud
And brought only hate and war.
Lined the roads with hollow praise
Marked the land with paper statues
Shadows fell on their futile ways
And then there was nothing more

Do you also support privatizing police and fire services? Libraries? Road maintenance and infrastructure building? How do you feel about corporate welfare? Or the billions unaccounted for in Iraq?

MOre than 90% of kids use some sort of public schooling - this country would not exist as a stable working democracy without it. What you are describing is the value system of an arab potentate or an african warlord - might makes right and only money counts.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

I suspect your basic skills came from school, though - the ability to read in or der to learn from others who are not directly with you (biology, philosophy, etc.). Yeah, I think schools suck at teaching languages - but then i studied five and can't speak in any of them.

There are many ways of learning - not all come from schools., Ideally a school teaches basic skills, and how to think, as well as how to gather research materials and apply knowledge.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Charters here have been incredibly successful, as well - we have alocal charter high school that jst made the top ten list in the country - from Time magazine. It's a european type prep school whererall high school courses are AP.

It's been hell on the local private school nearby - because it gets better results with no tuition.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Yes.Not sure what "billions unaccounted for in Iraq" have to do with this, but no, I don't support the Iraq war or the troops.Right, and if our government were completely socialist, paying for all of our cars, then 100% of our citizens would use government vehicles. But, as you can see, it is possible to exist with a privatized car industry. Same can be said about schooling. The free market will take over.Can you back this up?No, I'm describing a mostly free market society. I didn't know African warlords were bound by laws like murder.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

A fair amount of opinion, but no real facts here.

I've never seen any research that indicates that charter schools perform better than public schools. If you have some objective research that differs from that, I'd love to see it.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Get unions out of the public school system. (Why school unions are needed is beyond me as there are no 'robber barons' who own the schools.)

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“It's time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy, a bureaucratic system in which everybody's role is spelled out in advance and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It's no surprise that our school system doesn't improve; it more resembles the communist economy than our own market economy."
Albert Shanker, former president of the American Federation of Teachers

actually they have, there are a few I saw an article where 23 out of 350 selected for a study didn’t measure up...BUT more to the point IF a charter school does not work, they are folded up....a public school that doesn’t work goes merrily along its way...that, is ridiculous....


and remember when a child is taken from a public school, they only get a third, barely, of the funds the state gives the school system per pupil, leaving the school, 2/3 of the money for a student that is not attending, so any issues regards robbing the public school system of funds is patently absurd.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

If there's a study like that, I haven't seen it.

Oh, and the school where I taught? Shut down. Going to be made a charter school. I'd bet $10 that they have no more success than we did.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears