Sorry Josepha I missed this, I didn't by-pass it.

One size fits all, no, it doesn't work. But the motivation of any institution of education has to be - well in my world anyway - the education of its students and not the pursuit of profit. I've had a few tangles with private (fee paying) high schools here where I live and I was less than impressed. But that's just a personal experience. I still hold by the principle that education shouldn't be about profit.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

A lot of charter schools are nonprofit, but I've seen some good ones that aren't. The fact is, with charters, parents vote with their feet. A superior school will have a waiting list to get in - charter, private or public.

Still, once burned - I can see why you would shy away!

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

To prove that you're not just blowing hot air out your bunghole. You made the statement that supplying no public education would work because the market would take over - I'm asking you to show me where this has worked.

I didn't invent charters as a pipe dream - I'm commenting on a growing phenomenom. You are blowing smoke and calling it diamonds!

__________________
And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Where did I say "it has worked in the past?" I simply provided you with other examples, like the car industry, and explained to you how the private market takes over.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Well, for some reason it won't let me edit this stuff...so I'll have to finisht the list in a hurry (again).
6) Get rid of sports
7) Have more gifted programs
8) Smaller classes
9) Allow children to go to whatever high school they want to in any district.
10) Allow for a slightly more flexible program that can emphasize on a student's strengths.


1Alright, now to explain: 45 minuets and 9 classes a day is insane. We all know this. Try balancing that. It's nearly impossible to do, especially if you have time management issues. Also, backpacks simply cannot hold that many textbooks and notes. With a total of three minuets between classes, most students don't use their lockers anymore.

2Computers DO help when they're at home. But having tons of them doesn't foster a learning enviorenment. Trust me, I am at school right now and writing this instead of homework. (Actually, I don't have any right now, but you get my point).

3Teachers, when they screw up, should be held accountable. That said, they should be able to take risks and not have a 'system'. But really bad teachers should still be pressured to perform well.

4I know students who get up at 4 in the morning to make the bus on time. And many miss it. That's very, very sad. How can they focus when they're only getting a few hours of sleep? Teenagers need MORE sleep than the average person, yet they get up hours earlier than elementary school students.

Will finish this later (again)

__________________
Sever the line to the guilty past
To the ones who brought us nothing
Spoke of futures brave and proud
And brought only hate and war.
Lined the roads with hollow praise
Marked the land with paper statues
Shadows fell on their futile ways
And then there was nothing more

Unfortunately, it isn't so. Charter schools can speak for themselves with their great successes, as the waiting lists show. Why would parents cry for joy if the schools weren't absolutely top-notch? Why would parents go through all the trouble instead of letting the state deal with it? Obviously, charter schools are far superior, because they don't follow all the same rules and regulations. The teachers they hire are often younger, and have more motivation. After all, if they don't succeed, they're ALL out of business.

__________________
Sever the line to the guilty past
To the ones who brought us nothing
Spoke of futures brave and proud
And brought only hate and war.
Lined the roads with hollow praise
Marked the land with paper statues
Shadows fell on their futile ways
And then there was nothing more

Not nearly in time. There's a LOT of kids, and not a lot of private schools. Private schools also are better because they work well in one-on-one situations. But given the massive influx, and the private system will be EXACTLY like the old public one.

__________________
Sever the line to the guilty past
To the ones who brought us nothing
Spoke of futures brave and proud
And brought only hate and war.
Lined the roads with hollow praise
Marked the land with paper statues
Shadows fell on their futile ways
And then there was nothing more

I disagree with doing away with sports, but I do think there should be a minimum one should participate in. For instance, I knew guys that played Football, Baseball and other activites most of the year round and were able to get passes for school-time just by being in it. Or maybe make sports more like an autonomous affiliation, rather than synonymous with the actual school? That way it is something the kids can truly make time for, not use it as en excuse to get out of schoolwork just because it is tied to the school.

Exactly. Very well said. You take away public schools and private schools will just take their place - too many kids and not enough teachers to make an effective ratio to teach them with.

Alright, back to the list... NOW I have the time.

5) I know a shorter school day sounds impossible. How does one shorten a school day's end and at the same time make it open later? The answer is electives. Yes, electives are great fun. Gym, Art, Shop, Home Economics, Music, and Study Halls are some examples of such electives. Actually, some are even required.

Getting rid of them would shorten every student's day by at least one period. Considering the block schedule that is also becoming more and more popular, this would reduce it by about an hour and a half or more. Assuming we split that into forty five minuets later for starting the day and let school out forty five minuets earlier, and that's a lot of time, but not a ton. Let's also cut out lunch. Assuming the school lets out at 2:30 (about average), taking off forty five minutes gets us to 1:45. Take off another forty five minutes for lunch (and, if applicable, another half hour for recess). You're now down to 12:30. Kids can then go home and eat lunch instead of forcing themselves to eat stuff that still squirms.

Now I know this all sounds horrible, and I seem to be the grinch. But as a student myself, I can say with complete honesty that students would gladly make the trade off. I will now break down the cost of everything. Gym, art, and music all take a lot of money for instruments, gyms, equipment, supplies, etc. You also have to pay the teacher, repair shops for broken things (or new ones) or constantly renovate it. (hey, I said ALL the costs). That room can be better used as overflow, helping to bring down class sizes. A lot of kids at my old school were crammed into too-small rooms.

6) Get rid of sports

Okay, Grinch again. But let's face it. What do sports have to do with school? Again, we have to pay a lot for equipment, a lot of coaches, uniforms, fields, gyms, storage rooms, locker rooms, stadiums, etc. which all have to be either replaced or renovated. Schools with a high emphasis on athletics generally perform poorly academically. This isn't always true, but there is a correlation.

Costs aside, there are other organizations that play the same sport as the high school. There are teams that don't have anything to do with schools out there. If someone wants to play a sport, they should register there, not at our schools. How does cheerleading help lead to graduation? Yes, scholarships, but you don't have to be on a school team to get them.

7 Get more Gifted Programs
Considering the huge amount of cash being saved, shouldn't it be directed towards academics? Yes, our gifted may benefit a class, but what of the gifted themselves? Are they not held back by being in a class that goes far too slowly? Are we truly preparing them, helping them be the best they can?

No, sadly. We are not, and most of them end up jaded and bored at school. Many get into trouble, seeking forms of entertainment. True, anyone can be bored at school. But when you get bored only because you aren't being challenged, then there is a way to fix that, and a way to help.

8) Smaller Classes
Our class sizes right now are obscenely huge, too large to be effective, especially at the college prep level. This is because most schools don't offer anything lower than college prep, so there is a wide array of students, from those who simply aren't fit for college to those who are just below honors class level. Teaching a class of above thirty is hard enough, but when you have students who are all over the spectrum, half your class is fast asleep while you're explaining how something works to the confused other half. Either create new classes (which would reduce class size) or admit that not everyone is cut out for college. It's not the end of the world for students.

9) Allow children to be placed in any district
This is vital. This is revolutionary, in fact. Choice is nothing new, but in some places it's almost illegal (which is damn silly). What harm comes in allowing students to choose what school they go to? Let them apply, just as they do at colleges. Yes, some will become almost ivy-league, and some will become pits. It's a shame that they will, but it's inevitable. Fortunately, when they close, many of their sub-standard teachers will be fired. It's a good way to weed out substandard schools. Is it not at least worth a try? Perhaps not on a national level (never test something that way) but at least on a county or maybe state level? No one has ever had a college admission set up the way our high schools are. Maybe there's a reason for that.

10) Parental activism
Make sure parents are involved more. They are a vital asset. Mother DOES know best. A system does not always have the child's best interests in mind.

11) A block schedule worked great for me and many others, and it reduces the number of classes in a day, but keeps the same amount of time.

5. Shorter day could work.
6. I like your idea of having them play sports elsewhere.
7. Agreed.
9. I think some areas in the country do this already. I was allowed to as a Senior, as was my sister.
10. This I'm not sure about. You can't force parents to give a damn. Sorry.

That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying nobody will run an additional number of schools even when there is such a huge demand for it? Despite the fact that starting a private school is within the power of entrepreneurs (it requires no rare resource)? Private schools are better because private schools exist to make money, compete and stay alive. Obviously, the catholic schools we have right now might not be as good, but that's because the public school system is poisoning the industry. There is a smaller pool of people looking for good schools since there are public ones they are forced to pay for whether they go or not. The main difference between private and public schools is that a private school will fail in the competitive market if it is incompetent and it will disappear. Not so for public schools, which will exist as long as the US government is able to forcefully take money from its citizens.

__________________
If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

You advocated eliminating public education - and explained that the free market would do a better job. I asked you to show one place in the world that had made that decision - and successfully carried it through. Since there isn't one, you've been prevaricating, and backstroking..

__________________
And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Private school have the luxury of cherrypicking the best kids from the wealthy elite. Good teachers are willing to work for lower salaries to have the safe, quiet environment. Once every kid goes to private schools - all the same buildings and teacher will have to be used (or will more magically appear?) thus reinventing the same problems.

Charter schools take the same kids as public schools - and use new techniques. Teachers don't have to have a background in education - only in the field that they teach. Federal and safety regulations are followed - but the cumbersome layers of administration and rules are done away with. They present a challenge to the current monopoly on education - and foster competition for the same slots. Once local districts realize that whining won't get those kids back, then they shake off the rigidity and begin to compete - hence a win/win situation.

__________________
And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

7 - one of the larger groups of drop-out is gifted children - particularly minority gifted children. What a waste of talent - for everyone!

__________________
And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007