No, that is not what I said. This goes to show that you have no idea what a parallel scenario or analogy is.Says the man who follows the "if it never happened before, then it can never happen in the future" fallacy.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

I would be happy to pay for private roads and private railroads.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

That is an assumption. Needed to be stopped, but who wants them stopped? Everyone? How do you know?That would be because the residents decided not to have a firefighter team by not hiring one.There was nothing inefficient in what you described. The firefighters hired by the insurance company did just what the insurance company, their employer, apparently told them to do. That is not inefficient. See the security guard example.Why does everyone get to have a firefighting system? What if someone has no use for it?Or you could hire an insurance company with a more competent firefighting team. This would give that company a competitive advantage. Thus, other, incompetent firefighting firms would either be forced to close down or merge with the other firm. Better yet, why do you assume that the failure of your one firm to put out the fire, which it promised to do, would somehow be ignored?I agree with what you said with the three examples of what a person could do, but the fact is that you left out other options, such as suing the insurance company for violation of contract, where they promised to put out your fire.Sure, I don't think everything should be privatized either. For instance, I think the government should keep a small defensive military.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Anyway it was an interesting discussion, thanks Slon.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

Originally Posted by Slon
I've never dropped my bottle of water. However, I have dropped other plastic containers and they fell to the ground. Are you saying it is unreasonable for me to assume that the plastic bottle of water will also fall to the ground if I drop it? Do you think that anything that has not been done before, can never be done? There was a first time that a man was sent into space. And a first time man landed on the moon. But somehow, you think it is impossible for the free market to take over schooling, just as it has taken over the automobile industry among other things, just because it hasn't happened before?

Wow- falacies galore! Gravity is a natural law - capitolism is an economic system - and Henry Ford was never a member of the govt. Combine all three and you have to have the weakest argument I've seen yet. Because of the predictability of gravity, I should assume that public education is not needed - even though the govt is the only force that has succeeded in reaching the moon. Oh, yeah - something about cars, too.


Originally Posted by Slon
No, that is not what I said. This goes to show that you have no idea what a parallel scenario or analogy is.

Says the man who follows the "if it never happened before, then it can never happen in the future" fallacy.

In fact, it is precisely what you said.

Gravity is a natural law - education is not.
Yes, man went into space - no private enterprise was not involved.
The free market has always controlled the car industry - it was not taken over from the govt.

For an analogy to work it must be truly parallel - without such inherent falacies. It never works when the question is - can you show me one place in the world where this has been successfully tried? Clearly you can't - so feel free to decide what you want to eat with your crow - perhaps a bit of Grey poop-on?!

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

Ah, so you use it, but complain about paying your share.

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

You continue to use the "since it never worked, it never can" argument. I'm having trouble taking you seriously when you continue to say that.

Also, according to what I read, gravity is a theory.

Gravitation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll break it down for you. I gave you a reason as to why privatization would work. The theory of supply and demand. If there is a demand for education, and government doesn't take our money to pay for it (acting as the middle man), then someone in the private sector will create institutions. The fact is, private schools and universities exist even with the presence of public ones. Another fact is that many industries fare rather well even if the government is not involved. For instance, the automobile industry. Cars aren't exactly a luxury anymore.

Understanding Poverty in America

But how can that be? You might ask. The government isn't dominating the automobile industry, giving everyone free cars. And owning a car isn't even forced, unlike education, which is forced up to a certain grade.

Earlier, you made the argument that if I cannot show you that fully privatized schooling has worked elsewhere, then obviously it cannot work. Let me disprove that theory. Before the first man landed on the moon, no other man has landed on the moon. But did that stop the first man from landing on the moon? No. He did land on the moon. Therefore, your theory is disproved, since the first man to land on the moon did land on the moon despite the fact that at that time, nobody has landed on the moon elsewhere. Come up with a better theory next time.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Because I'm already paying for it. Duh. What exactly is your point? I just want the government to release me from this contract (where I pay for the road to be able to use it) that I never signed. I find the government to be incompetent and would like to exit the contract so I would have the money I would have been paying to them to instead pay for a road owned by a more competent private industry.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Actually, they allow it in only few areas, and it's very hard for a lot of people. You have to really buck the system and do a few technically illegal things. If you look at the 20/20 review on education (which was suprisingly good) they say that it is illegal in one of the Carolinas. In my own state, I had trouble 'choicing' into a better district and had to face a lot of restrictions (cannot ride bus within 5 miles of my own home, and I had to walk). The governor's son was allowed to go to the better school by administrators. When they asked if it was illegal, they blatantly said yes, but they would make an exception. They sent their son there, tried to change the law, and got shot down by teachers unions.

Granted, unions are important. But after a while they can become shields for bad people.

Oh, and that's true enough, but I didn't mean to say that we should force parental involvement. I think we should try and encourage it by proving that the school's staff are listening to what they have to say. After all, if they don't, the school gets shut down.

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Sever the line to the guilty past
To the ones who brought us nothing
Spoke of futures brave and proud
And brought only hate and war.
Lined the roads with hollow praise
Marked the land with paper statues
Shadows fell on their futile ways
And then there was nothing more

Gravity is a natural law - there are theories about why it works the way it does, but it is a natural law. You don't know much about physics, do you?

As for the rest - I rest my case - but I have taken on a new signature line!

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And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I'm sorry it's the case, and I'll work hard to try to elevate it." --George W. Bush, Jan. 29, 2007

So another words, you don't want to argue the rest because you know you can't. Point taken.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Schools ARE expensive, yes. But people have little choice as to how their tax dollars are spent. Some are spent on war, pork projects, and prisons. But I am not a construction worker, soldier, or prisoner. Still, I must pay my taxes.

Money is better spent in charter schools than in public ones.