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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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Old 04-12-2007
Speakeasy's Avatar
Speakeasy Speakeasy is offline
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Which Party Will Destroy Freedom of Expression First?

God damn it.

For all those people claiming that 'the other side' is doing all it can to squelch freedom of expression, you're wrong. Both parties have a deep desire to remove any sort of expression that merely conflicts with their own views. Basically, if you vote for a Democrat or a Republican, you are voting to have your speech and expression regulated and possibly silenced if it doesn't please the masses.

With Republicans attempting to remove our right to burn our own flags, labeling those that oppose the Administration's policies as 'aiding the terrorists' and so on, they have certainly shown their contempt for our freedom of speech. Now, with Democrats crusading against Imus, as if their main goal was to burn him at the stake, they've certainly showed their true colors, as well.

They both want to limit what you and I can say or express.

And don't give me any of this "you have the freedom of speech, but not freedom from consequences" crap that I've heard thrown about. It's quite obvious that if you are bound by consequences, you aren't free. You might as well say we have the freedom to murder, but not the freedom from consequences.

Free speech means we should be able to say what we want and express our point of view without fear of repercussions. It doesn't mean that you can say something, but you may get fired due to pressure from people who disagree with you. It means that you can jokingly call people "nappy headed hoes" and anyone who disagrees with you or was offended by the statement has the equal right to express their opposition. It doesn't mean that when something offends you, you have the right to silence that person through whatever means necessary. This is a lesson that both sides should learn.
Quote:
"If CBS follows suit as NBC has done, it gives a chilling message to those that will use the public airwaves in a way that is gender-biased and race-biased," Sharpton told "The Situation Room."

He also said he intends to complain to the Federal Communications Commission about the matter.

"Somewhere we must draw the line in what is tolerable in mainstream media," he said Sunday. "We cannot keep going through offending us and then apologizing and then acting like it never happened. Somewhere we've got to stop this."
Quote:
(Barrack Obama) "I've got two young daughters who I hope will be athletes. And, you know, the notion that somehow they would be degraded and insulted, and that that would pass as humor, and that NBC would be running that over the public airwaves I think is atrocious,"
source

Quote:
From the Senate floor Monday, Specter compared flag desecration to libel and child pornography, forms of expression he said have no "social value."

"Flag burning is a form of expression that is spiteful or vengeful," the five-term senator said. "It is designed to hurt. It is not designed to persuade."
source

Quote:
...to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve," Ashcroft told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil.
source

Last edited by Speakeasy; 04-12-2007 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 04-12-2007
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Which Party Will Destroy Freedom of Expression First?

You do raise an interesting point. However, it seems that part of what you're saying is that Imus somehow deserves his radio show, regardless of what he says. I would disagree with that.

Now, I'm definitely in agreement that the reaction has been way overblown, and I find both Sharpton and Jackson to be pathetic media whores who can't be taken seriously. But, if his sponsors and the individual companies that pay for his ability to broadcast say that they don't want to provide his forum any more, I really can't take issue with that. Just like if I decide that USPO is the means with which I'll broadcast my plans for assassinating elected figures, Marc has no obligation to provide the platform for that speech either.
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Old 04-12-2007
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Re: Which Party Will Destroy Freedom of Expression First?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
You do raise an interesting point. However, it seems that part of what you're saying is that Imus somehow deserves his radio show, regardless of what he says. I would disagree with that.
Not that he deserves his radio show, but that he should be able to say what he wants and when he wants it without fear of repercussions. Don Imus broadcast his show for 25 years, so he obviously had a faithful base of listeners and generated enough ad revenue to keep him on the air. I could understand if the show was canceled due to low ratings, but that wasn't the case. The show was canceled due to pressure from people who most likely didn't even listen to Imus in the first place. It was literally canceled due to his opposition wanting to silence him and him finally giving them the opportunity to do so. But this thread isn't specifically about Imus.
Quote:
Now, I'm definitely in agreement that the reaction has been way overblown, and I find both Sharpton and Jackson to be pathetic media whores who can't be taken seriously. But, if his sponsors and the individual companies that pay for his ability to broadcast say that they don't want to provide his forum any more, I really can't take issue with that. Just like if I decide that USPO is the means with which I'll broadcast my plans for assassinating elected figures, Marc has no obligation to provide the platform for that speech either.
I understand.

However, his sponsors didn't just suddenly decide that they didn't want to support his program any more, they bowed to pressure from people who disagreed with what Imus said. These people are being lead by self proclaimed Democrats, almost as if they're heaving pitch forks over their heads and trying to chase Imus up to the old mill. Does Imus have a history of racial violence or other bigotry towards women and minorities? Not that I personally know of, but correct me if I'm wrong. He simply said something and the people who disliked what he said (primarily Democrats) did everything they could to silence him.

How do you feel about the quotes that I listed? Particularly the one from Obama saying that the thought of someone insulting his daughters on the radio was 'atrocious'. This man is going to be running for the Presidency of the United States and he thinks that people shouldn't be able to make any sort of insulting remarks over the radio? That is scary!

I'm just worried. It seemed for awhile that the conservative Republicans had speech suppression down to an art, but now that the Democrats are starting to get some wind in their sails, they seem to be going down the exact same path. It should worry everyone who believes in freedom of speech and expression that their only choice in an election is not should speech be restricted, but what kind of speech will be restricted.

Is it safe to say that the first amendment is already dead?
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Old 04-12-2007
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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Re: Which Party Will Destroy Freedom of Expression First?

I couldn't agree more. And it really pisses me off to see so called "liberals" pulling crap like this. I expect it from the right - it hurts to see it from my own side of center.

It is sad that a real racist - Al Sharpton - is chastising Imus in order to get a little free publicity for himself and so many people fall for it. I haven't been a fan of Imus since I was a teenager (before alot here were born) but this PC frenzy makes me gag. Imus put out a record 30 years ago called "this honky's nuts". So his record of racial "insensitivity" goes back a long way. Idiotic to act all surprised and upset now.
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Old 04-12-2007
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Which Party Will Destroy Freedom of Expression First?

I see your point, Speakeasy, but I'm not sure that I can agree. Clearly there are limitations on free speech, especially broadcast speech. In addition to the yelling "fire" in a crowded theater limitation, there are limitations on libel and slander, and IMHO rightfully so.

IIRC, Imus' ratings have been slipping significantly. I wonder how much of this was specifically designed to do what it's done? A name that was fading from the public awareness is suddenly shot to the forefront. Whether he stays where he is, or is picked up by someone else (Fox, maybe?), Imus' handlers have succeeded.

Oh, and as far as the politicians' quotes go; they're all just posturing. Do I believe that Obama (given the very little I know about the man) would somehow suppress criticism in the media? Nah, I just can't buy it. I think you're reading too much into that sound bite.
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Old 04-12-2007
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doniston doniston is offline
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Re: Which Party Will Destroy Freedom of Expression First?

Not a party but a philosophy. and definitely the liberal over the conservative.
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