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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
I've often wondered about this issue myself. For instance alcohol is responsible for far more assaults, deaths (alcohol poisoning, accidents whilst drunk, drink driving, etc), marital breakdowns than ANY other drug, yet it's perfectly legal. I wonder if the reason that other drugs are illicit is because governments have yet to work out a way of taxing them? I bet that the moment they work out a way of making $ from them, they'll be legal.
A lot of it, I would think, would have to do with the sources of the drugs.

These cartels have been operating for years, getting as much as possible for their product. They're not going to be too open to the U.S. Government stepping in and taxing the product, and making it more expensive for the end user.

They'll be under no obligation to sell to U.S. distirbutors (for lack of a better word), and their networks will continue to conduct business as usual.

Add to that the fact that whatever administration in office when it happens will almost certainly be known as the party advocating that Americans use drugs, and you've got a no-win situation...
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
I've often wondered about this issue myself. For instance alcohol is responsible for far more assaults, deaths (alcohol poisoning, accidents whilst drunk, drink driving, etc), marital breakdowns than ANY other drug, yet it's perfectly legal.
Is that true on a percentage basis? I mean alcohol is used far, FAR more than any other drug.

The real question is, on an individual basis, someone who uses alcohol more or less likely to assault somone, get killed, or whatever than someone from the same background who uses cocaine or heroine or meth or whatever drug is being looked at.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

The irony, of course, is that we keep the drugs illegal in order to 'keep them from the kids.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
Yes there are figures on this. I've linked them before and I'll see if I can dig them up again but the bottom line is that addiction has biological (addiction has been observed in other animals) and cultural causes. The set of drugs which happens to be illegal at any given time is irrelevant to the numbers.

The "expense, difficulty and risk" do have an effect. Those factors channel most drug addicts to the legal drugs. When drug addiction was first viewed as a serious problem in this country it was alcohol that was viewed as the main culprit - even though other drugs like marijuana, opium, and cocaine were legal at the time.

For children, illegal drugs are easier to obtain than alcohol is. That was true for me and my friends when I was a teenager and my children tell me it's still true today.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Weed is illegal because they can't preven people from growin it - which would greatly lessen demand for many legal drugs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
I've often wondered about this issue myself. For instance alcohol is responsible for far more assaults, deaths (alcohol poisoning, accidents whilst drunk, drink driving, etc), marital breakdowns than ANY other drug, yet it's perfectly legal. I wonder if the reason that other drugs are illicit is because governments have yet to work out a way of taxing them? I bet that the moment they work out a way of making $ from them, they'll be legal.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
noahath noahath is offline
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
The real question is, on an individual basis, someone who uses alcohol more or less likely to assault somone, get killed, or whatever than someone from the same background who uses cocaine or heroine or meth or whatever drug is being looked at.
All one has to do is look at how many bar room brawls, household assaults, etc occur each and every day all over the world. Alcohol is by FAR the more detrimental drug.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
T.F.B.M T.F.B.M is offline
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer View Post
I think 'democratic people' want something besides the heavy-handed tactics of law enforcement. Currently, DEA are saying, "if you do drugs, we'll do bad things to your life." Well, what do you suppose doing drugs does to someone?
So, todays paradigm is nothing more than a power struggle: telling people how they can/cannot ruin their own life.
Ah, the free will argumentation.

Funnily enough, democratic people somehow introduce themselves as the protection champions of free will whereas they are -in acts and decisions- active promoters of substances depriving from free will or destroying free will.

The second part is that in their act of dissimulating, democratic people sell an information as an act of prohibition.
Most democratic governments if not all inform about the risks involved in drugs usage. Their actions towards reducing the actual consumption of drugs is rather low.
On the contrary, on many scenes exposed to large audiences like sports, it is well known that democratic governments only do the minimal to prevent usage of drugs by democratic sportsmen, only what is needed to save a face actually.

Democratic governments inform about risks of doing drugs. Yes.
Democratic governments doing stuff to prevent consumption. No.
On the contrary, one could easily go the other way: democratic government allowing drugs consumption.

Is this that really hard to do drugs in democratic countries nowadays?
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.F.B.M View Post
Ah, the free will argumentation.

Funnily enough, democratic people somehow introduce themselves as the protection champions of free will whereas they are -in acts and decisions- active promoters of substances depriving from free will or destroying free will.

The second part is that in their act of dissimulating, democratic people sell an information as an act of prohibition.
Most democratic governments if not all inform about the risks involved in drugs usage. Their actions towards reducing the actual consumption of drugs is rather low.
On the contrary, on many scenes exposed to large audiences like sports, it is well known that democratic governments only do the minimal to prevent usage of drugs by democratic sportsmen, only what is needed to save a face actually.

Democratic governments inform about risks of doing drugs. Yes.
Democratic governments doing stuff to prevent consumption. No.
On the contrary, one could easily go the other way: democratic government allowing drugs consumption.

Is this that really hard to do drugs in democratic countries nowadays?
Only 9 uses of the word "democratic" in that post! You're getting better.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
I've often wondered about this issue myself. For instance alcohol is responsible for far more assaults, deaths (alcohol poisoning, accidents whilst drunk, drink driving, etc), marital breakdowns than ANY other drug, yet it's perfectly legal. I wonder if the reason that other drugs are illicit is because governments have yet to work out a way of taxing them? I bet that the moment they work out a way of making $ from them, they'll be legal.
It's really a cultrual issue. Alcohol was the drug of choice for most europeans. Marijuana was associated with mexicans, opium with orientals, and cocaine with (mostly southern) blacks. The laws against those drugs were originally (at least in part) aimed at suppression of those minority groups.

It is no more difficult to tax marijuana, cocaine, opium, or any other drug than it is to tax alcohol.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
All one has to do is look at how many bar room brawls, household assaults, etc occur each and every day all over the world. Alcohol is by FAR the more detrimental drug.
But you see, that misses the point. Alcohol is also the FAR more prevelent drug (quite possibly because of its legal and cultural acceptence).

Consider this:
Cars are responsible for far, FAR more deaths than cocaine.
But that tells us nothing about whether we should legalize cocaine of ban cars.
The sheer prevelence of cars (and scarcity of cocaine) skews the data.
If we could prove that, on an individual basis, putting a person in a car was more likely to cause death than having a person use cocaine, then we might have something go on. But the numbers by themselves, without taking any account of the context, are meaningless.

A meaningful comparison would have to ask "On an individual basis, which is more likely to cause harm: a person drinking alcohol or a perosn using cocaine".
That still wouldn't tell you whether either one should be banned, but at least it would mean something.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noahath View Post
Alcohol is by FAR the more detrimental drug.
Drink 6 fluid ounces of whiskey in one hour, and then inject 6 fluid ounces of morphine in one hour.

Alcohol is not the more detrimental...
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Namaste,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Drink 6 fluid ounces of whiskey in one hour, and then inject 6 fluid ounces of morphine in one hour.

Alcohol is not the more detrimental...

This conclusion depends on how you specify a detrimental effect. In terms of short-term overdose then heroin would be more detrimental. However, the quantity of people using alcohol versus the quantity of people using morphine makes alcohol more significant in terms of detrimental effects. In other words, more people use and abuse alcohol than opiates and therefore alcohol has a more detrimental effect on society.

What would be the effect of injecting 6 ounces of whiskey directly into the bloodstream? I would hazard that both would make you just as dead.

In Peace,
David
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Drink 6 fluid ounces of whiskey in one hour, and then inject 6 fluid ounces of morphine in one hour.

Alcohol is not the more detrimental...
Taken in that context, you are correct, but it is still a DUMB DUMB DUMB approach and virtually irrelevant.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.F.B.M View Post
Is this that really hard to do drugs in democratic countries nowadays?
It is getting more difficult.
Laws are created everyday, it seems. A bill awaits (probably) to lessen a freedom somewhere in America.
Alot of people are reactionaries: they cry and uncle sam gives them a tissue and a new mandate.

Less law = more freedom.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

I fully support legalizing drugs and am fully against all taxpayer funded rehab.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheBurgh View Post
I fully support legalizing drugs and am fully against all taxpayer funded rehab.
That is undoubtably the position most founded on personal liberty.
But is the best decision for the government? Wouldn't that naturally lead a massive increase in the number of impoverished, desperate addicts?
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