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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2007
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CDavidNeely CDavidNeely is offline
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Namaste,

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnomon View Post
No, what I stated is directly related to the issue and my original posts. The enforcement of the drug laws is part of the problem. They make matters worse than what you believe.

I don't take drugs. I've been down that road before. I'm not whining. I'm hoping people like you actually take the time to learn something about what is going on in this nation with regards to drugs. It is not merely about addiction. That is a separate issue entirely.

It is the fact that the "drug war" is an institution of racism, a primary source of corruption, the federal government has outright lied and violated their own ethics in the prosecution of this war, more civil rights have been taken away from us in the name of us war (far more than that idiotic Patriot Act), we have violated the sovereignty of foreign nations executing this war and wasted trillions...essentially because Americans cannot take their head out of their ass and realize that there is a drug problem (which can be helped by education and treatment) and there is a drug war (which is the greatest monumental failure in American history since slavery).

If we can put an end to this ridiculous drug war, then maybe we can work on the drug problem.
Addiction is not another problem entirely. If people were not addicted there would not be a need for drug control. If everyone that tried drugs simply tried them, or used them every once in a while, then this would be a simple problem to address. However, drug use doesn't work that way. Many drugs are instantly addictive. Meth, heroin, cocaine and others create an instant addictive impulse.

The original post ignored the very real issue of the impact of drug use on others beside the user. These are deep and troubling issues that are almost never addressed by those advocating legalization of drugs. They assume that the only person of concern is the drug user and ignore the impact on the lives of others. There seems to be a fantasy that if we legalize drugs all of a sudden the addicts will start thinking clearly about their use of drugs and start being responsible. I have never seen any indication that this occurs during srug use. None of the drug users I know have any sense of responsibilty concerning their drug of choice. They only care about getting more and spending their time sedated from reality.

I will give you one point. If we legalize drugs then people will realize the drug issue. I am quite sure that the addition of millions of addicts would bring the problem to national attention.

I will reiterate one of my statements. Drug use is a choice. In most circumstances, no one makes a person use drugs. If you know that drugs are illegal, and you choose to use them anyway, then your choice is to risk going to prison. If you don't want to go to jail or prison don't use drugs. If you do use drugs then accept that you are eventually going to go to prison.

In peace,
Eglaelin

PS. I wonder where people got the idea that drug use was good for you since so many people want to argue to make them legal. I must have missed all the famous and productive drug users in history.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

It would be good if politicians realised that drug use and addiction is a medical issue and not something efficiently and effectively dealt with by the criminal law.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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tamperpr00f tamperpr00f is offline
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

I have long believed that one of the major problems with the American system of justice is that we have far too many things that our courts consider criminal while being too soft on perpetrators of crimes. These things have created an unecessary "gray area". We ought to decriminalize any action which does not pose a direct and immediate threat to the safety or freedom of other citizens while simultaneously making prisons less comfortable and prison sentences stiffer.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Namaste,

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamperpr00f View Post
We ought to decriminalize any action which does not pose a direct and immediate threat to the safety or freedom of other citizens while simultaneously making prisons less comfortable and prison sentences stiffer.

Define "direct and immediate."

In Peace,
Eglaelin
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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tamperpr00f tamperpr00f is offline
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eglaelin View Post
Namaste,




Define "direct and immediate."

In Peace,
Eglaelin
Well obviously that has to be the domain of the courts. I will however give some examples of what I would take to mean "direct and immediate" and then some examples to the contrary.

Pulling a gun out and pointing it at a person - direct threat.
Owning a gun (even if you have a prior criminal record) - not

Being under the influence of a drug - not
Being under the influence of a drug while driving an automobile - direct threat

If you would like more specific example ask and I will give you my opinion.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
Slon Slon is online now
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
I favor legalization. But, I do have a qualm about it and as far as I am concerned, this is the only thing I'm waiting on hearing the pro-legalization side make a provision on. As soon as that becomes agreed upon, I'm good to go with it. It is your body to do whatever you want with, which is why I'M not going to pay for it. If someone ingests drugs into their body and damages their lungs, liver, and brain -- how the hell am I supposed to honestly support footing the bill? People do a have freedom to these things. However, it is also their responsibility -- You want to smoke and drink yourself to shit? You can sit in it.
Well, state-funded healthcare is a bullshit idea to begin with. So I think your problem lies there. I oppose it, too.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Drink 6 fluid ounces of whiskey in one hour, and then inject 6 fluid ounces of morphine in one hour.

Alcohol is not the more detrimental...
That's not really fair. Either inject both or drink both.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
That is undoubtably the position most founded on personal liberty.
But is the best decision for the government? Wouldn't that naturally lead a massive increase in the number of impoverished, desperate addicts?
We are not the private property of the government that exists solely to further the government. Sorry.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
What if drugs, like alcohol and cigarettes were taxed and that money went to fun drug rehab clinics?
Why tax it at all?
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Namaste,

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamperpr00f View Post
If you would like more specific example ask and I will give you my opinion.
Would you consider using a drug while your children are present to be a direct threat to their lives? I do. Of course, I consider smoking while your children are in the room or car to be a direct threat to them as well.

In Peace,
Eglaelin
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An environmentalist once told me that humanity was a failed species and needed to die out. I am beginning to see her point. We have poisoned the air, the water, the land and ourselves. By the year 2025 we will be on the edge of a catastrophy of unimaginable devastation and I hope that those that come after will have learned a vital lesson.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westguy13 View Post
Well heres my take on the whole drug situation. From someone who has been involved in just about every aspect of the drug scene at one point in their lives. As a user, as a dealer, as a smuggler and as a drug counselor.

The first major question we must ask ourselves is do we belive that it is the Governments job to protect us from ourselves? Is that our definintion of freedom? At what point does protection become control? While I do belive that some drugs should be illegal due to their addictive and dangerous nature, I also belive that adults should be afforded the right to make their own mistakes.

Drugs like cocaine, heroine and methamphetamines do have major potential to destroy lives. These drugs also have major potential to make the user dangerous to society. That and that alone is the reason they should remain illegal. Now when you look at things like Marijuana, psilocybin mushrooms and a few choice other "drugs" I think that we are seeing a completly different story. These drugs are less addictive and less dangerous then both tobacco and alcohol which are legal and readily available.

Is it really nessicary to arrest approx 785,000, otherwise law abiding citizens, a year for marijuana? The average prisoner costs the goverment $22,650/yr to house costing tax payers billions of dollars a year. Thats not even taking in to consideration the amount of money we are spending on searching out these pot users/dealers/growers. Wouldn't that money and resources be better suited for prevention of violent crime in this country?
No, I don't think it's the government's job to protect me from myself. But I have a way to treat both sides of the argument the way they want to be treated. Those that want to be protected from themselves can call the government and ask them to place them on a "do not sell drugs to" list. Everyone else can buy any drugs they want.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eglaelin View Post
Namaste,



Would you consider using a drug while your children are present to be a direct threat to their lives? I do. Of course, I consider smoking while your children are in the room or car to be a direct threat to them as well.

In Peace,
Eglaelin
I would in both cases. I would equate drug use with neglect, and I would equate smoking to child abuse (as smoking cause immediate and long lasting damage to children's lungs among other things.)
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
Slon Slon is online now
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eglaelin View Post
Namaste,



Would you consider using a drug while your children are present to be a direct threat to their lives? I do. Of course, I consider smoking while your children are in the room or car to be a direct threat to them as well.

In Peace,
Eglaelin
No. But someone who tries to kill them while under the influence of said drug would be a direct threat.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
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CDavidNeely CDavidNeely is offline
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Namaste,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
No. But someone who tries to kill them while under the influence of said drug would be a direct threat.
I should have said "children instead" of your "children".

If drug use is Ok does a childcare provider using drugs constitute a direct threat to your, or any, children. If drug use is legal what stops a caregiver from using marijuana, heroin, crack or meth while children are in their care. There are always more things to consider than most people think about.

In peace,
Eglaelin
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An environmentalist once told me that humanity was a failed species and needed to die out. I am beginning to see her point. We have poisoned the air, the water, the land and ourselves. By the year 2025 we will be on the edge of a catastrophy of unimaginable devastation and I hope that those that come after will have learned a vital lesson.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007
Diuretic Diuretic is offline
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Re: Legalize Drugs: a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamperpr00f View Post
I have long believed that one of the major problems with the American system of justice is that we have far too many things that our courts consider criminal while being too soft on perpetrators of crimes. These things have created an unecessary "gray area". We ought to decriminalize any action which does not pose a direct and immediate threat to the safety or freedom of other citizens while simultaneously making prisons less comfortable and prison sentences stiffer.
As well, criminalising pleasure degrades the criminal law in the minds of the community.
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