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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2007
theClerk theClerk is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

Quote:
Originally Posted by proUSA View Post
Interesting....I have never read anything on Aristotle, Plato or etc and is one of the reasons why I said "my personal faith".

But I would have to question the timeline; there was 1,200 (?) years between Genesis and Plato, that's a long time and I would still be amazed that any Philosopher back then had enough insight to consider the big-bang theory. But I very well could be wrong.
You aren't. But you are confusing a physics and biology. If the universe had just leisurely wandered into existence 150 Billion years ago then evolution would still be a valid theoretical answer to the question of speciation. The two theories aren't joined by very much more than the fact that they are both studied by people who wear lab coats and talk in polysyllables.

The Big Bang was inferred from modern scientific measurement. But evolution was an old idea when Darwin gave it scientific legs. Anaximander (c. 610 BC–c. 546 BC) taught that humankind emerged from the sea and must have gone through transition stages from fish to humans. Granted this isn't as far back as Genesis but it's not far off. (Genesis was composed/collated (according to modern scolarship) between 950 BC and 500 BC.)

The ideas have always co-existed. There wasn't a time when people couldn't fathom evolution of speciation. It is only (sadly) in our time that they have been viewed as "competing" theories.

It is sad. Do we demand that our sages write Biology test books? Do we really want to argue that the porphets were, above all, philosophers of natural sciences? What a tragic reductionism...

Conversations can be non-scientific and important at the same time.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
Even if Hank didn't make things up himself it wouldn't matter. I'm pleased to say that many religious people - and, at least from my POV, even very religious people - are perfectly able to distinguish between science and religion.
It’s a problem on your end. Evidence that the earth recycles itself and fossils 100’s of millions of years old would be somewhere between the magna and mantel is only labeled religion for you guys.
Quote:
While religion certainly seems to be a prerequisite for rejecting science despite the fact that, given the chance, it could be easily understood, it would be quite absurd if atheism was a prerequisite for actually understanding science.
No Godless country has ever contributed to the advancement of any aspect of the human race. In fact, Shit like going to the moon and entering the atomic age can only be found in history books from when America was still 97% Judeo/Christian. All you guys do is conserve everything and tell us we have to go back to burning *cough* wood because fossil fuels and nuclear are evil. Advancing science is a command from the old testament. No science has ever came from any source that wasn’t creation based. Ever (That’s how pitiful the deceivers are playing you.).

Gen, 1:28~ Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, >>>and subdue it<<<: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
~Snip~ Darwinism is a Marxist movment from the 1960's, nothing more.
How is that possible? The Origin of Species was published in 1909.
It was also rejected by the scientific community in 1909. Darwin was a lapdog scientist want-a-be who was laughed at until his death as a reborn Christian. The new democratic socialist party dug up old unpopular publishing’s that in actuality no laymen even knew of.
Dr Spock died a crack pot and was re-born by 60’s activist for his “let your kids run around naked in the backyard and don’t hamper or interfere with there creativity, Sigmund Froyd for his “Everything is okay to do” pagan philosophy and Darwin for the god is dead movements. These names were unknown in the academic community until the Nam era ended and The new democratic socialist party formed and seized the universities at gun point.
Quote:
What's the "logic" that we're supposed to be arguing here?
Ulterior motive of ideological conditioning of the young and weak minded.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
SMadsen SMadsen is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
It’s a problem on your end.
Hank, as always, if given the benefit of the doubt, your rantings are ambigious. If not given that benefit, your rantings are pure nonsense. So, I'll give you the benefit and ask: What problem??

If you mean it's a problem that some religious people cannot distinguish then yes and no. Yes, it can become a problem on my end if it manages to infect the education system. Otherwise no, it's not my problem; I'm not religious and I can therefore safely say that I have no problems with any such distinction.

If you mean it's a problem that many religious people are able to distinguish then I'll retract the benefit of the doubt right away and declare it pure nonsense.

---

Now, what about that maximum age of an atom? Surely you, as a citizen of a godfearing country, should be able to elucidate us all on a finding that must contribute ever so much to the advancement of the human race.

So? How do we know that an atom last no more than a few thousand years?
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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iTaliAN_ICe iTaliAN_ICe is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
In fact, Shit like going to the moon and entering the atomic age can only be found in history books from when America was still 97% Judeo/Christian.
...And when the USSR was stone-cold atheist. There is no correlation between religious belief and scientific advancement.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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iTaliAN_ICe iTaliAN_ICe is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
How is that possible? The Origin of Species was published in 1909.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
It was also rejected by the scientific community in 1909.
It was published in 1859, guys.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
~Snip~ If you saw the way what you call science was pushed into the academic world when Nam ended your opinion would change. Everything you think you know is wrong. Planetary orbits don’t even work for more then a few thousand years, billions is just stupid and of blind following (I really don‘t think you people know how big that number really is.).
Ah, just for the record if there's an orbit there’s drag (You know, force vector acting against velocity vector and all…).
And your authority on this is, what, exactly?
Member of the planetary society since 1976, member of M.A.R.S. astronomy club in Tampa, Fla., and yes, I’m also an old hippy with an arts degree (I swear to god that I have met Carl Sagan in person who was the president of the Planetary society which I belonged to. I swear to god that I had peace signs and shit sewn on my old army jacket in the 1960‘s, I swear to god that I used to dabble in the black arts and even have a copy of the book the movie “The 9th Gate“ was made about. (My mothers uncle was the one who hung himself.).).
I’m just full of surprises.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

My bad. I googled the title, and I must have found a 1909 printing. I didn't think that it sounded right, but I was too busy to dig further. Thank you for the correction!


Unlike some, I'll admit when I'm wrong.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2007
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Member of the planetary society since 1976, member of M.A.R.S. astronomy club in Tampa, Fla., and yes, I’m also an old hippy with an arts degree (I swear to god that I have met Carl Sagan in person who was the president of the Planetary society which I belonged to. I swear to god that I had peace signs and shit sewn on my old army jacket in the 1960‘s, I swear to god that I used to dabble in the black arts and even have a copy of the book the movie “The 9th Gate“ was made about. (My mothers uncle was the one who hung himself.).).
I’m just full of surprises.
Translation: not a fucking thing.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chang Wufei View Post
~Snip~ I am shocked to say that the majority of children do not believe in Evolution.
This was shocking for me. How can one who plans to major in archeology believe that the world is only a few thousand years old?
Not believing in evolution doesnt imply that someone thinks the world is only a few thousand years old.
Atoms only last a few thousand years...
Are you insane?
Actually I’m feeling much better thank you, but addressing your colorful metaphor for being shocked, think of you being taught that what you believe to be the color blue, was really red to the rest of us. You would also respond with, “what! Get outta here, what, nawwww.”
You can see your dilemma on being in the bottom percent of a percent of common knowledge belief.
It is a fact that they parade heavy metal atoms as assumed indestructible (Less fusion/fission.), but other less heavy atoms decay in a few thousand years. It does not in anyway suggest that heavier elements are actually billions of years old. The decay rate is simply an unknown.
One of many counterfeit truths stretched in one direction.
Quote:
Where did you get this crap from?
It’s more of a same place different time thingy.. You do not get 118+ elements from a yellow dwarf hydrogen star if they are so indestructible. I mean, that’s what radiation is, decaying atoms…
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Planetary orbits don’t even work for more then a few thousand years, billions is just stupid (I really don‘t think you people know how big that number really is.). Just for the record if there's an orbit there’s drag (You know, force vector acting against velocity vector and all.).
And your authority on this is, what, exactly?
It's in the Bible.......…
Actually it was Newton's universal law of motion.
Possibly labeled as religion and abolished from academic publishing.

There’s no way in hell with force vectors acting on the velocity vector and there also being 1 hydrogen atom per cubic centimeter of interplanetary space (About the drag on a baseball in 1 atmosphere.) could the earths orbit stay steadily slow enough for billions and billions of years while this *cough* evolution was occurring…
At present rate it would have been so fast just 10,000 years ago a 70 year old man would chronologically be 700 years old.
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Last edited by Hank; 09-01-2007 at 07:23 AM.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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White Rabbit White Rabbit is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

The title of the thread is misleading. There is no controversy or conflict in the classrooms.

The conflict issue is entirely political and entirely driven by adults and occurs entirely outside the classrooms. It is all about politically forcing control over classrooms.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2007
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Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Actually it was Newton's universal law of motion.
Possibly labeled as religion and abolished from academic publishing.

There’s no way in hell with force vectors acting on the velocity vector and there also being 1 hydrogen atom per cubic centimeter of interplanetary space (About the drag on a baseball in 1 atmosphere.) could the earths orbit stay steadily slow enough for billions and billions of years while this *cough* evolution was occurring…
At present rate it would have been so fast just 10,000 years ago a 70 year old man would chronologically be 700 years old.
I'd be curious to see more about the bolded bit if you have a source (optimally a link b/c I'm lazy) to cite for it.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2007
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Atoms only last a few thousand years...
Shit! I hope they hold out a little longer, so I at least get to see the start of football season, before the universe spontaneously degenerates into a formless soup of sub-atomic flotsam.
Compoundmillennia events only effect the generation to see there fulfillment. A new car or an old car in a junkyard are still both cars in a junkyard. There demise does not correlate to there duration designs.
How God does it was not given us (Oh by the way, there is no reference to how old existence is in either the old or new testaments.).
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2007
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Evolution: Conflict in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by SMadsen View Post
Now where's Hank? He's got some questions to answer.
I just entered page "3".
Patience Luke
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