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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2007
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Beer Beer is offline
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Free Speech cost town $150,000.

The KKK wanted to get the word out: white supremacy is alive and well in Kalamazoo.
The cost to protect the controversial clan: $150,000 including salaries of the 398 police officers keeping the peace.
Should the KKK be forced to help with such costs?
After all, they ARE being protected. In addition, most disagree with their philosophy and a many more want them to disappear.
Tax payers will foot the bill when the Klan decides they want another rally. But, what is fair here?
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Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Sorry. Forgot the link:
SPLCenter.org: Police Bill For Racist Rally: $150,000

and

MLive.com: Everything Michigan
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Old 08-29-2007
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device is offline
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

No, I'd rather not head down the road where people are forced to pay the police for protection, unless their intent is to cost the government the money to do so.
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Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thematic-Device View Post
No, I'd rather not head down the road where people are forced to pay the police for protection, unless their intent is to cost the government the money to do so.
Agreed. It'd be a great way to stifle speech - a huge charge for the unpopular.
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Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Isn't this a form of public welfare?
A group wants to rally and taxpayers foot the bill.
IN this case, it is a want, not a need.
The poor must eat they receive tax money. The KKK want to rally, they get tax money.
Or is that an apples to oranges comparison?
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Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Agreed....as much as anyone disagrees with these idiots - their right to say it (peacefully) is one of the founding rights in this country.
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Old 08-29-2007
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device is offline
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer View Post
Isn't this a form of public welfare?
A group wants to rally and taxpayers foot the bill.
IN this case, it is a want, not a need.
The poor must eat they receive tax money. The KKK want to rally, they get tax money.
Or is that an apples to oranges comparison?
Really in the end, they have a right to have their protests, the government has an obligation to protect everyone at the protest and to make sure that it doesn't turn into a riot.

Further the money isn't going to the KKK, its going to the police who are fulfilling their obligations, to defend everyone regardless of how offensive or repulsive they may be.
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Old 08-29-2007
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Evil_inKarlate Evil_inKarlate is offline
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Isn't this a form of public welfare?
A group wants to rally and taxpayers foot the bill.
IN this case, it is a want, not a need.
The poor must eat they receive tax money. The KKK want to rally, they get tax money.
Or is that an apples to oranges comparison?
It's not welfare, since the police are the to protect the general peace, not the KKK specifically. To hear you describe it, if anyone deserves a bill, it's those who would disrupt the KKK rally.

It's definitely an apples to oranges comparison. The poor get direct, specific support that in cash equivalents. The KKK indirectly cause an increased usage in a 'service' that is provided to the general public.
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Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_inKarlate View Post
It's not welfare, since the police are the to protect the general peace, not the KKK specifically. To hear you describe it, if anyone deserves a bill, it's those who would disrupt the KKK rally.

It's definitely an apples to oranges comparison. The poor get direct, specific support that in cash equivalents. The KKK indirectly cause an increased usage in a 'service' that is provided to the general public.
I was thinking about this one, too.

Technically, it's not the KKK that's the problem. It's the taxpayers, for they're the ones from whom the KKK has to be protected.

If there weren't a threat of violence, there would be no need to incur the expense.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

All great observations.
Leads me to conclude free speech is (like the police officer said in the article) not free.
More like Premium Speech, in this case. Or protected speech. I dont know. But, it is not free especially when tax dollars go towards protecting people who want to air their unwanted speech.
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Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer View Post
All great observations.
Leads me to conclude free speech is (like the police officer said in the article) not free.
More like Premium Speech, in this case. Or protected speech. I dont know. But, it is not free especially when tax dollars go towards protecting people who want to air their unwanted speech.
True, but I think we're a better society for protecting it.
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Old 08-29-2007
Wlessard Wlessard is offline
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem View Post
Agreed....as much as anyone disagrees with these idiots - their right to say it (peacefully) is one of the founding rights in this country.
As someone who has seen these ignorant individuals first hand I can attest to their tatics.

Go into an ethnic neighborhood, black, jewish whatever then start chanting as they parade staying just below the level of deliberately voiced racism. They incite people to anger and violence by their presense and their statements. Then they hide behind public servants when the crowd turns ugly.

Also if you want to protest in response to them the city or town fights your right to do so. Just to avoid a conflict.
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Old 08-29-2007
noahath noahath is offline
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thematic-Device View Post
No, I'd rather not head down the road where people are forced to pay the police for protection, unless their intent is to cost the government the money to do so.
I agree. What then might happen is that the police will only come to your aid if you pay them - ala health insurance, etc.
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Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
I was thinking about this one, too.

Technically, it's not the KKK that's the problem. It's the taxpayers, for they're the ones from whom the KKK has to be protected.

If there weren't a threat of violence, there would be no need to incur the expense.
Good point. If everyone just ignored them, they wouldn't need protection.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2007
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Re: Free Speech cost town $150,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe View Post
Good point. If everyone just ignored them, they wouldn't need protection.
Exactly.

If everyone just ignored them, they'd probably stop their demonstrations. It seems they're mostly interested in getting attention, not conveying a point.
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