Originally Posted by Lurker

Perhaps, but perhaps not. Bullies can teach a lot of other lessons too, it all depends on the parents. A bully can help teach the ever important ideal of 'defending the weak.' Not by exhibiting this behavior themselves obviously, but instead...the Lancelot type (we all know him, the son of the ex-marine etc) who 'shows the bully the error of his ways.' A bully can help teach fair play. If parents teach one on one, man to man, the bully will give an opportunity to put that lesson into practice. It's one thing to tell a kid something (I wasn't one that long ago, and thus believe I can speak as an expert) it doesn't stick until it's actually put into practice. 2 bullies vs Lancelot + victim = fair fight. Perhaps my school was different in that regard, but, there were a bunch of Lancelot types (who I learned my own Lancelot streak from, maybe the best thing about myself.)

Hell, look at TV : the kid who finally stands up for themself and takes out the bully is portrayed as a hero, ESPECIALLY if that kid isn't the one being bullied, but instead stands up for someone weaker than them.



That's only if the bully is allowed to win. It's my personal experience in school, the bullies were taught that what you were saying above is wrong. If anything, from my experience, the teachers were actually protecting the bullies. There were several occasions were the Lancelot types (myself included after I grew a pair as it were) taught a bully a lesson as it were, and thus were ratted out and punished. (For anyone who's been in my position, you know exactly the type of bully I'm talking about.) Which is yet ANOTHER lesson that can be taught...sometimes, you have to do the right thing, no matter the cost to yourself.



It's the duty of those who have the ability to protect to do so. That lesson can be taught, to both the defeated bully and to the protector. The bully teaches 'might doesn't make right' in a much more concrete form than words ever could.

The situation you describe can only come to pass if someone doesn't stand up and do the right thing.

Originally Posted by Steve

What a tremendous pile of steaming horseshit.

Originally Posted by kramer

Wow, so the answer is to ban tag? This is the same flawed thought process used by the anti-gun crowd.

Kramer

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

Right on! Tag doesn't make people "it" - people make people "it".

Originally Posted by Lurker

It's my experience that the 'good kids' vastly outnumber the bullies. Second, once one person stands up others will draw strength from that person and thus act where they were previously afraid to do so alone, virtually guaranteeing superior force on the part of the 'good guys' as it were.

I was watching something on court TV, one of their 'extreme crime' shows. The show was an incident where a man had gotten fired, had gone to a train station to kill his boss, couldn't find the boss and began stabbing himself instead. Well, the crowd stayed back from him until one man charged him to attempt to get the knife away from him. Within seconds of the first man charging, the rest of the crowd gained strength from the man who stood up, and hence mobbed him, took the knife away, and saved his life.

This was my personal experience in school. Those lessons are necessary for a safe and secure society, and bullies throughout history have been an effective method of teaching them. All your points are valid, though to a certain degree are entering the land of the hypothetical. But then, my arguments are as well.

Ban bullies, ban the possibility of people learning good things from them, but also ban the possibility of people learning not-so-good things from them. The question I guess is...do the ends justify the means?

Originally Posted by Speakeasy

You can easily force someone to play tag.

Say "I'm going to beat the shit out of you if you don't play tag." Done deal.

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

B-b-b-but.... It didn't say that in the article! I, therefore, declare it impossible. Ipso, facto.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

For the record, you're not allowed any more hiatuses. (hiati?) We need your humor.

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

What is it about Friday afternoons that brings out the inner smartass in all of us?

Originally Posted by LordVicari

Greetings and Felicitations,



The entire time I was harrassed in middle and high school there was never a Lancelot type that came to my rescue. Not once did anyone interfere but plenty of people jumped in to add to the harrassment. I never saw a bully punished for his activities and trying to defend myself only got me jumped by more than one. I was once chased after school by an older student on a motorcyle.

I wonder if anyone thought that perhaps the game of Tag referenced was only used as a smoke screen for harrassment. If two, or more, people decide to chase some kid until exhaustion then they aren't really playing tag but just pretending. For example, when I went to school we played something called WarBall. It involved deflated volleyballs and was pretty much like Dodgeball but played on a enclosed basketball court. I was forced to play by the gym teacher and was always the target of several bullies targetting me at the same time. Everytime I was tagged out I was put back into play as soon as possible. So, yes, you can be forced to play a game when you don't want to.

I don't know where you went to school but my experience was much different. The only thing that dealing with bullies taught me was that they will, generally, be proteced by the system.

Lord Vicari

Originally Posted by drgoodtrips

What ends and what means?

And, is it your contention, that, generally speaking, the student body will come together to stand up for the nerds, geeks, and spazzes? I don't know about you, but my experience was that the student body would be more apt to join in the bullying. Junior high kids are amazingly cruel - it's not that they're "bad" or "good" - it's just a function of the age and hormones.