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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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Old 09-21-2007
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Columbia University & gay rights, WTF?

As many know, Columbia University at one point banned military recruiters from their campus because of the military policies on gays. The recruiters are permitted on campus now - because the federal courts mandated it - but students are told that the interviews are contrary to school policy.

Quote:
Columbia Law School last week agreed to treat military recruiters the same as other recruiters, even though its ''Don't Ask, Don't Tell'' policy, which bars openly gay people from the military, does not comply with the school's nondiscrimination policy. Columbia's decision followed similar actions by other law schools, including Harvard's and Yale's, that have bowed to the government's threat to withdraw hundreds of millions of dollars in federal research money if military recruiters are not treated equally.

LEE C. BOLLINGER, Columbia's president, said the university planned to appeal the government's interpretation of the policy. In the meantime, DAVID W. LEEBRON, Columbia's dean of the law faculty, said that when military recruiters come to interview, ''We will let all students know that such interviewing is in violation of law school policy, the specific ways in which the military violates our policy, and the reasons we have been compelled nonetheless to permit them to interview on campus.'' He said the school would also organize a colloquium on issues raised by military discrimination over sexual orientation.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...rssnyt&emc=rss
OK, I can understand that the military policy conflicts with the University's policies and I think the university is doing the right thing by fighting discrimination.

Columbia also bans ROTC from their campus, for the same reason.

But....

They are welcoming President Ahmadinejad to speak there on Monday.

Quote:
NEW YORK (AP) - Columbia University says it isn't changing its plans to host a speech by Iran's president, despite pressure from critics.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (mahk-MOOD' ah-muh-DEE'-neh-zhahd) is traveling to New York to address the U.N. General Assembly. He is scheduled to appear Monday at a question & answer session with Columbia faculty and students as part of the school's World Leaders Forum.

The State Department calls Iran a state sponsor of terror. Ahmadinejad has called the Holocaust "a myth" and urged for Israel to be destroyed.

The university dropped plans for an Ahmadinejad speech last year because of security and logistical problems. The decision came after a Jewish activist group expressed outrage over the invitation.

http://www.kcautv.com/Global/story.a...09811&nav=1kgl
So let's make sure I have this correct:

The military is bad, because they discriminate against gays, but a man whose government tortures and executes gays just for being gay is an honored guest?

WTF?

Matt
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Old 09-21-2007
White Rabbit's Avatar
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Re: Columbia University & gay rights, WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
As many know, Columbia University at one point banned military recruiters from their campus because of the military policies on gays. The recruiters are permitted on campus now - because the federal courts mandated it - but students are told that the interviews are contrary to school policy.


OK, I can understand that the military policy conflicts with the University's policies and I think the university is doing the right thing by fighting discrimination.

Columbia also bans ROTC from their campus, for the same reason.

But....

They are welcoming President Ahmadinejad to speak there on Monday.



So let's make sure I have this correct:

The military is bad, because they discriminate against gays, but a man whose government tortures and executes gays just for being gay is an honored guest?

WTF?

Matt
Agreed.

If the University wants to make a public stand against discrimination in the US military, and are supported by their students and faculty, that's their right (theoretically speaking).

But they look like hypocritical idiots if they go and invite Iranian President Ahmadinejad to speak at the university.

Without a doubt, Iran, as a nation, is far more discriminatory against gays than the US military. This makes a mockery of the University's anti-discrimination policy.
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Old 09-21-2007
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Re: Columbia University & gay rights, WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post
Agreed.

If the University wants to make a public stand against discrimination in the US military, and are supported by their students and faculty, that's their right (theoretically speaking).

But they look like hypocritical idiots if they go and invite Iranian President Ahmadinejad to speak at the university.

Without a doubt, Iran, as a nation, is far more discriminatory against gays than the US military. This makes a mockery of the University's anti-discrimination policy.
Although... having someone speak is not the same thing as endorsing the speakers ideas and beliefs. A university may bring in speakers to expose students to a range of ideas, or because they are a prominent figure in some way, without any official agreement or endorsement of the speakers message.
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Old 09-21-2007
Otter's Avatar
Otter Otter is offline
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Re: Columbia University & gay rights, WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
As many know, Columbia University at one point banned military recruiters from their campus because of the military policies on gays. The recruiters are permitted on campus now - because the federal courts mandated it - but students are told that the interviews are contrary to school policy.


OK, I can understand that the military policy conflicts with the University's policies and I think the university is doing the right thing by fighting discrimination.

Columbia also bans ROTC from their campus, for the same reason.

But....

They are welcoming President Ahmadinejad to speak there on Monday.



So let's make sure I have this correct:

The military is bad, because they discriminate against gays, but a man whose government tortures and executes gays just for being gay is an honored guest?

WTF?

Matt
Antioch had the same policy re the military at least 14 years ago, but I recall at least one speaker when I was there who was in favour of the military ban on gays. It was well attended, and there were many pointed questions from the audience.
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Old 09-22-2007
White Rabbit's Avatar
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Re: Columbia University & gay rights, WTF?

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Originally Posted by Otter View Post
Although... having someone speak is not the same thing as endorsing the speakers ideas and beliefs. A university may bring in speakers to expose students to a range of ideas, or because they are a prominent figure in some way, without any official agreement or endorsement of the speakers message.
In that case, the University ought to let military recruiters on campus for the same reason - exposing students to some range of ideas, without any official agreement or endorsement of the US military.

Since they don't, it is hypocritical. Either they stand by their principle of exclusion, or not. They can't have it both ways.
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Old 09-22-2007
Otter's Avatar
Otter Otter is offline
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Re: Columbia University & gay rights, WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Rabbit View Post
In that case, the University ought to let military recruiters on campus for the same reason - exposing students to some range of ideas, without any official agreement or endorsement of the US military.

Since they don't, it is hypocritical. Either they stand by their principle of exclusion, or not. They can't have it both ways.
I'm not convinced that they are 'having it both ways'. If they are a private university, then they do have the right to determine what speakers or events are appropriate for the education that they see themselves providing. There's no obligation to have a particular event on campus just because some other, unrelated or opposing speaker was allowed to speak. I also don't think that having recruiters on campus is educationally equivilant to having a speaker; there is not the same structured, public exchange of ideas with recruiters.
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