I am one who thinks it should be left up to the states. Historically it always was. The reason it was moved nation wide was a threat from congress to cut off highway funding to states who didnt change thier laws. From what I understand MADD was the effective lobby group in this.

I think MADD is an honorable organization, but they probably overstepped thier bounds on this one if the anecdotal story I have heard from many different people is true.

I would support drinking age laws similar to European laws where Beer and wine is I believe 16, hardened liquor 18.
Having said that, there should be restrictions. I do not believe someone under 18 should be allowed to drink in a bar. I support existing laws about losing your license on a first DWI under 18 (at least that's what it is in IN).

That sounds good to me. Driving drunk is one of the stupidest and most selfish things to do and I, too, like the idea of zero tolerance for it, as in Indiana.

But, as Bunz stated, it is a state decision.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

You'll find few people more against driving while drunk than me. In 1983 I was in a 3 car accident where my best friend was killed, and my knee was smashed.
I was 16 years old - thank God I wasn't the driver - however our vehicle is what caused the accident.
I had nightmares for years.

Exactly. Although I drink sometimes, I am almost a freak about not driving while under the influence. My driving is bad enough even when I have my wits about me. I could not live with myself if I hurt someone.

And, after having two surgeries to repair a shattered knee, I can sympathise with anyone one who has had a knee injury. That will teach me to be late on my loan payments to Sal and Vinnie.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I agree with this. Its not the role of the feds to control our drinking habits. As for my state, I say get rid of the drinking age. People can take care of themselves. Which isnt to say that the alcohol industry cant regulate itself and refuse to server minors.

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Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

I think that it has more to do with the fact that such a proposal would most likely be political suicide in the same way that attempts to have a reasonable opinion on drug prohibition would be political suicide. Imagine a politician pushing for this facing his next election - I can already hear the sound bytes:

"My opponent wants your children to drive drunk" or "my opponent supports children binge drinking."

A lot of such policy making outlives its usefulness (if it ever even had any) but will not be changed because any attempts at discussing it sensibly would be met with loud, vocal lobbies armed with fear and schmaltz. The "there-oughta-be-a-law" crowd would trot out people that had been maimed in alcohol related car accidents and whatnot, and appeal to everything but rational discourse.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

I've no use for drunk drivers either having been a victim of a one while pregnant with my first child and then losing my unborn great-niece just hours before she was born. I refuse service to many people that I know are driving and won't take a cab and though some get pissed off, oh well, it's not on my conscience if they get hurt or hurt someone else.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

You are exactly right. MADD was the primary organization behind raising the drinking age up to 21.
Do a little digging around on MADD and you'll learn they're a pretty terrible organization. While they may have once stood for something worthwhile, they've gone pretty crazy, just like PETA. Even the founder of MADD quit the organization because it was getting way off track. At this point, MADDs goal is basically to go back to prohibition.

MADD is also a huge supporter of DUI checkpoints. Although it's been shown that these checkpoints are incredibly ineffective compared to mobile police cars, cost far more money than they're worth and usually end up making drunk drivers take detours through neighborhoods, MADD continues to demand their use.

I started a thread on MADD awhile back detailing their insanity.

On a philosophical note, I always wondered why driving under the influence of alcohol became so demonized compared to other driver distractions. For instance, a lot of accidents are caused by driver fatigue (similar physical effects to DUI - slowed response times, lack of awareness, etc), screwing with the radio, eating while driving, having noisy children in the backseat, suffering from caffeine withdrawal, being old etc.

Generally, when you see commercials or what have you, they show grisly car accidents caused by DUI, but I've no doubt that the car accidents caused by other driver distractions are equally grisly and could produce equal numbers of sad stories. Bear in mind, I'm making no endorsement of driving while drunk, but idly wondering why someone who drives drunk becomes the scum of the Earth while someone who drives tired or senile is the recipient of nothing but pity.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

I have a free lifetime membership to MADD based on my victim status but I no longer participate in any activities related to them.
As for checkpoints, the cops around here actually set up in the neighborhoods which is good on one hand because people avoid those narrow streets now. Funny thing is, though I don't drive drunk, if I'd had just one drink, I'll drive right past the police station because it's the best way not to get stopped. I drink tall, weak drinks but I still don't want to have to try and pass a field sobriety test in 4" heels!!!

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Good deal. Like I said, they started off with honorable intentions, but once they achieved their goals, they started going downhill. Their whole purpose now is to simply stay in business, which means they continue to try and lower the legal BAL and try and outlaw any serving of alcoholic beverages in public places.
Sounds like your cops do it right. They usually do them on the main roads here, which cause large traffic back ups and make people drive through residential areas to avoid them. More than once, I've gone around a DUI checkpoint with no problems, just to avoid the hassle (yes, I was sober whenever I did so). In addition, the county police website will actually list the dates they'll have checkpoints and the times they'll have them, but usually won't give a location.

It's also funny whenever you read in the papers how successful these checkpoints are. They'll usually say something like "680 cars stopped, 17 people tested, 4 people arrested".

(funny, by guesstimate was spot on. For tests in 2006, it looks like one person was arrested for every 150-200 people stopped in my county: Welcome to MADD Loudoun County)

I agree with you, but I suspect one reason is that the law enforcement can prove that you have illegal levels of alcohol in your body in a comparatively easy way. It is more difficult to prove that someone is, for example, too tired to drive.

Personally, I believe the legal drinking age should be the same age as when you become legally adult. In most countries this would be eighteen. In Sweden, you can order alcohol at restaurants from the age of eighteen, but you have to be twenty to buy it in stores, oddly enough.

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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that?
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Demonization by laziness, eh? I suspect that you're right, but would like to point out that such is a shitty basis upon which to make policy - particularly when it carries an over-the-top stigma. That is to say, if I drink four beers while watching a football game and then get into an accident, I'm relegated by society to the level of child molesters and people who beat up little old ladies. However, if I drive without my glasses while exhausted, talking on my cell phone, eating, and screaming at my kids in the backseat and I get into an accident, I'm pitied by everyone around me. Same story if a senile old man gets into his car and drives through a department store window. Of these three choices, I think that most people wouldn't hesitate before choosing the guy with four beers in his system to be next to them in traffic over the other two, and yet if all three were to get into an accident, only our beer drinker would become a social pariah.

Most laws surrounding alcohol and drugs could most aptly be described as "odd" (generously - I'd use words like hypocritical, arbitrary and stupid, personally). I don't see any reason to have any drinking age at all. Let the free market sort it out - if there's outrage that the gas station is selling beers to 14 year olds, people will boycott until they stop doing that. No need for overreaching, pointless, and unenforceable federal laws.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

I think if you can fight in the war you can get shiznit faced. Im sure ID's arent asked at R & R.....would you refuse a kid who just got back from Iraq after 8 mos in "war zone" to get shiznit faced if you were the person incharge of alcohol on a military base?

In the states the drinking age should be 21.......hell half of the 18 yearold i know that are my brothers friends cant even tie there own shoes or make there own lunches....21 is a good age, i know that there are plenty of 18 year olds that are mature enough to drink but the majority are even too dangerous for a drivers license, but let em drink?

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it seems to me that young kids under the age of 18 kills alot of them due to alcohol and driving.

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