Another side of socialized medicine - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

MattLarson · #1 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Record numbers go abroad for health treatment with 70,000 escaping NHS
Last updated at 09:47am on 28th October 2007

Record numbers of Britons are travelling abroad for medical treatment to escape the NHS - with 70,000 patients expected to fly out this year.
And by the end of the decade 200,000 "health tourists" will fly as far as Malaysa and South Africa for major surgery to avoid long waiting lists and the rising threat of superbugs, according to a new report.

The first survey of Britons opting for treatment overseas shows that fears of hospital infections and frustration of often waiting months for operations are fuelling the increasing trend.

Patients needing major heart surgery, hip operations and cataracts are using the internet to book operations to be carried out thousands of miles away.

India is the most popular destination for surgery, followed by Hungary, Turkey, Germany, Malaysia, Poland and Spain. But dozens more countries are attracting health tourists.

Research by the Treatment Abroad website shows that Britons have travelled to 112 foreign hospitals, based in 48 countries, to find safe, affordable treatment.

Almost all of those who had received treatment abroad said they would do the same again, with patients pointing out that some hospitals in India had screening policies for the superbug MRSA that have yet to be introduced in this country.

Andrew Lansley, the shadow health secretary, said the figures were a "terrible indictment" of government policies that were undermining the efforts of NHS staff to provide quality services.

The findings come amid further revelations about the Government's mishandling of NHS policies, and ahead of official statistics that will embarrass ministers.

On Wednesday, figures are expected to show rising numbers of hospital infections. Cases of the superbug Clostridium difficile, which have risen five-fold in the past decade, are expected to increase beyond the 55,000 cases reported last year.

On the same day, statistics will show that vast sums have been spent on pay, with GPs' earnings rising by more than 50 per cent in three years to an average of more than £110,000.

New research shows that growing NHS bureaucracy has left nurses with little time to see patients – most spending long periods dealing with paperwork.

Katherine Murphy, of the Patients' Association, said the health tourism figures reflected shrinking public faith in the Government's handling of the NHS.

"The confidence that the public has in NHS hospitals has been shattered by the growth of hospital infections and this Government's failure to make a real commitment to tackling it," she told The Sunday Telegraph.

"People are simply frightened of going to NHS hospitals, so I am not surprised the numbers going abroad are increasing so rapidly.

"My fear is that most people can't afford to have private treatment – whether in this country or abroad."

Low prices in India, where flights, hotels and a heart bypass cost less than half the price charged by British private hospitals, explain its top ranking in the survey by Treatment Abroad, a British website providing information on hospitals overseas.

Hungary's popularity rests on a boom in dentistry, thanks to a shortage of NHS dentists in Britain.

The British Medical Association advised people to be careful when considering treatment abroad, highlighting the dangers of flying soon after surgery, which can cause complications.

A spokesman said: "Travelling can place a great deal of stress on the body. Patients travelling abroad for surgery should consider their fitness to fly and get an understanding of an appropriate convalescence period before attempting to return home."

A Department of Health official said the number of patients seeking treatment abroad was a tiny fraction of the 13 million treated on the NHS each year.

Waiting times had fallen. Almost half of patients were treated within 18 weeks of seeing a GP. Most people who had hospital care did not contract infections.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...icle_id=490233

I thought this was interesting:

"Waiting times had fallen. Almost half of patients were treated within 18 weeks of seeing a GP."

Of course, this means that more than half of patients wait more than 18 weeks for treatment after seeing a GP.

And this is supposed to be a system we should emulate?

No, thanks.

Matt

Mrs. M · #2 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

I thought this was interesting:

"Waiting times had fallen. Almost half of patients were treated within 18 weeks of seeing a GP."

Of course, this means that more than half of patients wait more than 18 weeks for treatment after seeing a GP.

And this is supposed to be a system we should emulate?

No, thanks.

Matt

18 weeks can mean death for a heart or cancer patient. When my dad failed a stress test and was found to have a major blockage, he had a seven bypass surgery the very next day!!!! I chewed him up one side and down the other for not telling the doctor of his symptoms earlier and explained to him that seven bypasses was highly unusual and even his doctor told him he shouldn't have been alive. Can you imagine waiting an additional 18 weeks???
Like you, Matt, NO THANKS!!!!

erikvv · #3 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Matt, remember that these people who have public ensurance would have no health care at all in the USA. Under socialized medicine you can still choose to use the money you pay to an ensurance company to buy private insurance instead. But most people dont do that because, like in the US, its too expensive.

Ive had jaw surgery and a brace for 3 years. I hardly had waiting times in the hospital or to make an appointement, the service was friendly, I had enough oppertunity to speak with my surgeons, and stuff like the food and bedrooms in the hospital were all great. And I never paid anything extra.

But perhaps in Britain its different. On the other hand there just arent enough donor organs for transplants after cancer and all sorts of diseases. Waiting lines for that are many years and might effect the average sevely, but that would be the case in the US as well ofcourse if everyone could get transplants.

MattLarson · #4 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Note sure where you get the idea that these people wold have "no health care at all".

What do you suspect happens when an uninsured person slips and falls and breaks a hip?

Do you think the Emergency Room turns them away at the door?
Do you think that they wait 18 weeks for a surgical repair of their injury?

Just curious what your actual knowledge of our healthcare system is.

Matt

tiny tim · #5 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

Note sure where you get the idea that these people wold have "no health care at all".

What do you suspect happens when an uninsured person slips and falls and breaks a hip?

Do you think the Emergency Room turns them away at the door?
Do you think that they wait 18 weeks for a surgical repair of their injury?

Just curious what your actual knowledge of our healthcare system is.

Matt

The slip and fall analogy is deceptive. Someone with an acute injury would receive treatment at a public hospital. In most states, private hospitals do reserve the right to turn away uninsured patients with non life threatening injuries. There is no guarantee, however, that the treatment provided would be a prompt hip surgery. The better question is what happens to the uninsured person with a degenerative condition requiring hip replacement? Unless they are poor enough to qualify for Medicare the answer is "they limp". Their waiting time would be, oh, forever?

MattLarson · #6 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Our system can certainly be improved.

However, we need to be careful to ensure that the improvement doesn't lead to the lower standard of care seen in systems like the UK and Canada.

Matt

tiny tim · #7 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

BTW, medical tourism is hardly unique to the UK.

Medical Tourism Takes Flight - washingtonpost.com

Quote:

Woodman estimated that more than 150,000 Americans traveled abroad for health care in 2006. The number is projected to double in 2007, he said.

"That 150,000 number is conservative," he said. "Some experts say 400,000." Among the top destinations: Southeast Asia and Mexico, with many other countries, such as Costa Rica, expected to be the next popular destinations for medical care.

pramjockey · #8 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiny tim

In most states, private hospitals do reserve the right to turn away uninsured patients with non life threatening injuries.

Actually, that's not true. The vast majority of hospitals accept federal funds. As a result, they are required to treat all patients, regardless of insurance.

SMadsen · #9 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Actually, that's not true. The vast majority of hospitals accept federal funds. As a result, they are required to treat all patients, regardless of insurance.

Also regardless of the condition for which they demand/need/want treatment?

pramjockey · #10 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Pretty much.

You may end up in the waiting room for 24 hours, but you will get seen.

tiny tim · #11 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Actually, that's not true. The vast majority of hospitals accept federal funds. As a result, they are required to treat all patients, regardless of insurance.

If they receive Federal funds you are correct. And the majority (I don't know about vast but I don't have any numbers in front of me to argue the point) of hospitals do receive some sort of federal money. Under the Federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act private hospitals are required only to screen patients seeking emergency treatment and stabilize them for transport to a public hospital if an emergency exists. That's not the same as treating them. That said, most hopitals prefer treating the patients to risking the liability of transferring them to another facility.
Hospital Liability for Failing to Comply with the Federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act in Florida

In any case. emergency care is the most expensive and least efficient method of distributing healthcare.

SMadsen · #12 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Pretty much.

You may end up in the waiting room for 24 hours, but you will get seen.

But will you get an operation?

Say I come in with a worn-down hip. No insurance. I ask to see a doctor so that he can schedule a hip-operation the following Tuesday. Do I get surgery and do I get it for free?

pramjockey · #13 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiny tim

In any case. emergency care is the most expensive and least efficient method of distributing healthcare.

Believe me, after my 12 years in EMS, I can't agree more!

pramjockey · #14 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMadsen

But will you get an operation?

Say I come in with a worn-down hip. No insurance. I ask to see a doctor so that he can schedule a hip-operation the following Tuesday. Do I get surgery and do I get it for free?

I'm not really sure what a "worn down" hip is. Are you talking about degenerative joint disease?

I've seen people receive hip replacement surgery that had no insurance whatsoever. I'm not sure how else I can explain it.

Like everything else, there's no universal rule here.

jviehe · #15 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007

I think that insurance is the problem, not the solution as it prohibits comepetion. No one knows what they pay for healthcare, only what they pay for insurance. No one is arguing that we should turn away emergency care for inability to pay, but anything else should be based on ablity to pay. I can see no reason why I should be forced to pay for the health care of others, especially when that health care is result of unhealthy living. Like communism, socialist health care is collapsing under its own weight.

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