Pretty much agree with Steve here. The Holocaust did happen. However, if some idiots want to deny it publicly, they should be free to do so.

The holocaust certainly did happen; the actions of the allied forces in Dresden was criminal.

You appear to be misunderstanding the purpose of the law, I think. They don't anti-denial laws to protect the truth of the holocaust, they have them to prevent such a thing from happening again. Generally, holocaust deniers tend to be not so fond of Jewish people and any denial of the holocaust can be seen as propaganda for their views. In an effort to make sure that something like the holocaust never occurs again, they employ these laws to prevent any potential "hate" movement from gaining steam.

In addition, from what I understand, you can deny the holocaust left and right in Europe. It only becomes illegal if you use holocaust denial as propaganda to further your anti-Semitic goals or to incite hatred or mistrust of an ethnic group. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

That is quite a non-sequitur; it would be the equivalent of banning the sale of butter knives at Wal-Mart in an attempt to prevent future murders by weapon.

More of a non-sequitur not from you but by the establishment if this is their reasoning. This would be the equivalent of saying you cannot question the morality or existence of Jesus because it may serve to promote negative views against Christians as potential fools or liars.

In other words the laws are actually geared toward punishing those who are likely to be the type of people who speak out against Jewish Supremacism and the state-religion of multiracialism/diversity?

This makes no sense whatsoever...

No, you're right. In Germany e.g. the laws in question are extensions of the laws against defamation (article 130 of the Criminal Code) and that of incitment of racial hatred (Volksverhetzung; article 194 of the Criminal Code).

Here's a very interesting article on the background of these laws, which also puts them in a broader context:
Germany Info: Information Services: Archives: Background Papers

An extract:

Quotes around the word Holocaust. Hmmmm....You're the one who posted that thread about Hitler, aren't you? Hmmmm.....


Inhibiting historical inquiry? Let's take another example. What if I say that Stalin's slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people in the Gulags never really happened, that it was all doctored photos and hallucinations and that the people who were killed really died of natural causes - is that historical inquiry? Or would it be sheer raving lunacy?

If you guessed "sheer raving lunacy", you would be correct.

Denying the holocaust is about as legitmate as denying that the sky is blue. I won't be expecting you to agree with me any time soon - reality cannot compete with the grand-daddy of all conspiracy theories.

But if you start whining and expect sane people to dignify this madness with the sober term "historical inquiry", you cannot expect a serious response.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Nothing would happen to you in many of the EU nations that forbid holocaust denial. You can question the Holodomor or Stalins gulags all you wish in the same EU nations that will jail someone for saying Hitler did not kill 6,000,000 Jews.

Is that fair?

Interesting question coming from someone who advocates cowardly attacking someone because of their skin color...

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Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

...which would make sense if there was recently a mass murder of millions of people due to butter knives from Wal-Mart.

Not really. I'm not exactly sure, but I don't think Holocaust Denial laws extend to prohibit people from being critical of religions and religious history.

It's geared toward people that could potential cause harm against a specific group of people, specifically Jewish people in this case. I think it's safe to say that Holocaust Denial is a staple for any anti-Semitic person and that most of the time, Holocaust Deniers are doing so in an effort to spread mistrust and dislike of Jewish people.

Sure it does. You can deny the holocaust, you can debate with your friends in the pub about why you don't believe in the holocaust, etc. You just can't write a book and go around giving speeches and attempting to convert mass groups of people into believing the Holocaust was a sham.

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

Thank you, sir.

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

60 years is not 'recent.'

Holocaustianity certainly appears to be a religion; it is a sacred cow that cannot be challenged.

Using that logic Zionist speech should be banned as it could lead Europeans to send money to Israel; a nation that subjugates and persecutes the Palestinians to this very day.

This is a crock but the next time you are in Austria or France feel free to test that theory...

All this means is that they prosecute 'holocaust-denial' as a variation of racial hatred.

No, holocaust denial should not be a criminal offense. It shouldn't be a civil offense. What it should be is an insight into the character of the person espousing it.

If you think the European laws against its denial somehow prove it did not happen, that is absurd. Bad laws don't change historical facts. Perhaps you would like to start a new thread that directly addresses the issue you really want to discuss.

__________________
"Some years ago I had a sobering realization about women, which was that there are just too many nice ones. One simply can't fall in love with, sleep with, or marry all the nice women...One of the saddening facts of life is that there is always going to be a delightful woman somewhere who, for whatever accident of timing or attraction, simply slips by and recedes to return only in a dream."
-Larry McMurtry in Roads

It's not exactly old news, either. There are still plenty of people living today that were around for it.

Plus, in my opinion, it's pretty darn recent in the context of the history of mankind.

I personally don't see it as a religion, or a sacred cow that cannot be touched. If someone had concrete evidence that the Holocaust was a big scam and/or they were doing so without some hateful agenda, I'm sure Europeans would be more than happy to review it. The thing is, the Holocaust was pretty well documented and Holocaust Deniers have about as much of a case as Moon landing deniers, from what I've observed. The "best" anti-Holocaust claim I've heard is something like "It wasn't 6 million, it was 3 million", which is still a pretty ridiculous point.

"Zionist speech", whatever that is, most likely does not openly call for hating and killing Palestinians. I have a feeling that such talk would be illegal under hate speech laws in Europe, but I'll admit I'm not entirely sure.

Why would I do that? I believe the Holocaust happened and dislike anti-Denial laws.

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

There are still people around from WWI; I do not view that as a recent event either...

How do you convince the EU you do not have a 'hateful agenda?' This is the problem...

How are they deniers if they admit 3 million were killed? Maybe you should revise your labels; they make little sense.

Your feelings and fact are two different issues; pro-Israel sentiment is not banned in Europe though thankfully unpopular in many circles.

Consider it an experiment; a test of a theory so to speak.