Presently, efforts are underway to criminalize denial of the "holocaust" in 27 European nations (European Union - EU). Holocaust denial and even trivializing the holocaust is already illegal in 10 European countries and Canada. Last year alone 15,000 Germans were prosecuted, and many thousands have been imprisoned, the most noteable being Ernst Zundel (see: www.zundelsite.org), who's been in prison for almost 5 years now.

For complete details, google: Holocaust denial laws Europe

The discussion here should focus on whether or not denial and/or trivializing the "holocaust" of the jews should be criminal offenses, or should the right of free speech be defended. Let's not get into the question of whether or not 6 million jews were deliberately murdered by the Germans during WWII. Only if it should be legal to question and/or deny it actually happened:

Here's one commentary on the subject:



'Holocaust Denial' Laws are Disgraceful
By Mark Weber - November 27, 2005

David Irving, the controversial British historian, was arrested in Austria on November 11 for a 16-year-old violation of that country’s “Holocaust denial” statute. He has now been formally charged, and if found guilty could face years in prison.

His case is by no means unique. In Germany, France, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland and several other European countries, as well as in Israel, it is a crime publicly to dispute the official version of Holocaust history.

The list of those who have been fined, imprisoned, or forced into exile for “denying the Holocaust” includes Robert Faurisson and Roger Garaudy in France, Siegfried Verbeke in Belgium, Juergen Graf and Gaston-Armand Amaudruz in Switzerland, and Guenter Deckert, Hans Schmidt and Fredrick Toben in Germany.

On November 8 the trial in Germany of “Holocaust denier” Ernst Zundel began with a dramatic clash between his attorneys and the presiding judge. And a few days later Germar Rudolf, a German citizen, was deported from Chicago to his homeland, where he likewise faces years of imprisonment for “denying the Holocaust.”

Tony Blair’s government considered introducing a “Holocaust denial” statute in Britain, but eventually rejected the idea. Italy, Ireland, Norway, Denmark and Sweden are among the other European countries that have declined to enact such laws.

Some people may be offended by those who play down Jewish death and suffering during World War II. But free and open societies protect even offensive speech. That’s why western countries defend the right of their citizens, for example, to praise Communism or promote atheism.

“Holocaust denial” laws violate ancient and universal standards of justice. They criminalize even factual or truthful statements that “play down” or “whitewash” the Holocaust. They are selective and one-sided. In countries where they are on the books, the Holocaust is the only chapter of history that cannot be freely discussed. They inhibit historical inquiry and restrict free speech. They are a disgrace, and should be repealed.



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Well, there isnt a right to free speech in general, at least in the US. But I dont think you should criminalize poltical beliefs, only actions that infringe on other rights.

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

Is this really breaking news?

In answer to your question; no, I do not think it should be a criminal offense.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

It shouldn't be a criminal offense.

It should, however, be an indication that someone possesses a profound level of ignorance...

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Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Whenever this question pops up on this site, the result is always quite similar. The large majority of US posters are against such laws, while a large majority of European posters support them.

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

How can we look upon any country as democratic if that country imprisons their citizens for simply denying or questioning historical events ??

I mean really, how can any sane, thinking person believe anything that is a criminal offense, punishable by imprisonment, to deny ??

For 68 years now, the German people have been demonized as the most evil people on earth with mountains of holocaust movies, documentaries, newspapers, magazines, books, etc., but yet they could not even deny or discuss publicly, the "holocaust", blood-libel, anti-German hate propaganda made against them.

It's no different than a defendant in court, charged with mass murder, not being able to speak in his own defense, nor have an attorney speak for him, while prosecutors make all sorts of attrocity allegations against him, and for an unlimited amount of time, while all the allegations are being presented to the word as fact, by the world's media.

Your comments ???

But more importantly, do US posters still believe the "holocaust" is true ??

How can they believe anything that is a criminal offense to deny ??

Also, does not the fact that so many western nations pass and enforce holocaust-denial laws, present overwhelming proof of how powerful and influential international jewry really is ?? This is really the point I'm trying to make here - the power of the jews.

Did you know Bush signed into law, the 2004 Anti-Semitism Act which forces the US Government to COMBAT criticisms of jews inside every country in the world ?? Including the snooping into every book, magazine, newspaper, and TV and radio broadcast in every country for signs of criticisms of jews ?? Those countries which are determined to allow free speech criticisms of jews in their media, or publicly by their citizens, become subject to economic sanctions or worse by the U.S. Jewish Occupation Government (JOG) and by all countries dominated by the JOG.

Don't you see ?? The US JOG is actively trying to destroy democratic free speech thru out the entire world, while starting wars and murdering millions of people using the BIG LIE that they're really trying to spread democracy.

Is this forum's purpose not to discuss and spread the word of FREEDOM ?? Let's raise some hell about the JOG - the most vile and potentially the most destructive tyranny in world history. Let's work to free ourselves and our posterity from bondage to international jewish criminals who control our government AND our national media, therefore the actions and thoughts of the masses of Americans.

Well, since you don't think it should be a criminal offense, and since Germans are unable to defend themselves against the ongoing attrocity propaganda in the world's media for fear of being caged in prison, do you still believe that the "holocaust" of 6 million jews is true.

I mean should we believe something that is against the law to deny ??

I do not believe the 6 million figure, but I do believe that progam of mass extermination was carried out against European Jews.

So, yes, I believe the Holocaust did happen.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Yes, I believe most sane, intelligent people realize the holocaust is true...

It's not illegal for someone in the US to deny it...

Well, of course it is. You obsess...

I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find anything stating that as the purpose of this forum...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Be careful there. Some deniers are actually remarkably intelligent individuals (David Irving for one) but they use the denial as a tool to legitimize fascism. That is the true goal of nearly all deniers. They want a fascist society but know that it will never happen as long as the Holocaust is associated with it so they try to rewrite history and portray the Nazis in a more positive way.

Intelligence and ignorance, unfortunately, can often be possessed by the same person...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Not sure what one has to do with the other. The holocaust did happen. Denying it makes you stupid, not criminal. Its a leap to assume making disagreeing with something historical criminal an indicator that the something didnt happen.

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

What 'truth' needs a law to protect it?

Oh certainly, but it isn't prudent to simply write off Holocaust deniers as simple crazies. The tactics they use are unfortunately very effective at spreading their lies so it's very important to engage them and pick apart their arguments. Nobody will sway a deniers views, but it is important to ensure they don't sway anybody else's views.