I'll put this into a few concise words: "I won't answer questions that I don't know how to back up."

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Ok so tell me, what are the planet's top performing health care systems and are they universal systems or are they privately insured systems?

You tell me how informed you are.

What an ignorant thing to say.

You have no idea how much I'm paying, or who it covers. Until you obtain such information, I will continue to take the correct position that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about...

You miss my point completely. I don't think it's any great stretch to ask someone to pay for their own health care. I do it. My colleagues do it. Why should we be asked to pay for someone else, regardless of what we pay for ours?

If you're really convinced that you're so intelligent, please tell me how much less I can be spending, right now, for the same coverage. I don't want percentages, I want dollar figures. That shouldn't be too hard for such a smart guy like yourself.

You've already stated that I pay too much, yet you've done that without the benefit of actually knowing the first thing about my health plan.

And you're saying I'm not intelligent??

__________________
Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I don't have to know how much you're paying to know that you're paying too much, regardless of who's paying it and to which insurance company. This is assuming that you believe that you have available to you the very best of American health care. Do you? Without providing numbers simply tell me, is your health insurance plan the very best in the country? Yes, or no?

As the legitimate and courteous question was posed to you first by Imperator, the burden is on you, pal. That's the way it works.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

uh huh..I have posted many statistics and arguments for and against here. There are areas that the European model performs better in, but that is wearing thin as the org.s and the system become overwhelmed. You made the claim, I asked for some issues and back up. And there ya go.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I think what you may fail to realize is; paying it by virtue of much higher taxes is still paying for it, it aint free, not in any way shape or form.

No one has come up with numbers regards what we would save on a personal outlay level by us to our health care provider, or what it would cost by paying higher taxes. So the cost issue you allude to is not equitable as we really don't know.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

All of the above, I think. Mostly, I think an appeal could be made to the economic bottom line: missed work days, easily preventable conditions caught early, etc.

My thinking is that more clinics, at low or no cost to the patient, for say, two annual trips, would be a great place to start. An emphasis on early detection and preventative medicine requires a very serious shift in philosophy, because there's far more money to be made with late-term treatments.

Just seems logical that it would end up saving a ton of money.

__________________
"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." - Ashleigh Brilliant(?)
(Voting for None Of The Above, so far...)

wal-mart, yes wal-mart is exploring this, Clinics, with a set price list for general care- colds, fevers, etc.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I don't know. I'm not in a position to either compare, or really care, about what's available elsewhere. What I do know is this: My insurance is very, very good, and it doesn't strain my finances to pay for it.

Likewise, as I don't know whether or not it's the best, neither do you. , based on the way you asked your question, isn't the best in the country. Yet, you don't know that it's not the best in the country.

What it is, though, is affordable and very comprehensive. I'm 100% satisfied with the coverage.

I would invite everyone to get themselves coverage that they're equally comfortable with...

__________________
Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Dusted off that crystal ball, did ya'?

__________________
Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Define 'not because of their own choices'.

I have a mild disability. Not severe enough for benefits of any kind, but I occasionally lose the use of my right hand and heavy lifting is obviously a problem. This is not my fault but it's caused a work history that potential employers see and simply laugh at. Of my last three jobs, two were minimum wage for twenty to twenty five hours a week and the third was done on a commission basis but business was so poor that they warned me I wouldn't make enough to not work a second job. You could say it's still my fault because I chose to put my future in the military rather than going the academic route, but it's certainly not a function of laziness, welfare mentality, or anything of the sort.

__________________
During the journey we commonly forget its goal. Almost every profession is chosen as a means to an end but continued as an end in itself. Forgetting our objectives is the most frequent act of stupidity.
-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Wanderer and his Shadow

All good socialists have villas in Southern France. That's not the point.
-Eurosocialist

Are you saying you have a service-related disability?

You should be on the phone with the VA...

__________________
Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

No. It's a preexisting condition which I thought was just arthritis until the doctors in Basic Training told me otherwise.

__________________
During the journey we commonly forget its goal. Almost every profession is chosen as a means to an end but continued as an end in itself. Forgetting our objectives is the most frequent act of stupidity.
-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Wanderer and his Shadow

All good socialists have villas in Southern France. That's not the point.
-Eurosocialist

I think it's all academic anyway. Medical costs are just going to keep going up & up until even hard core, dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican voters will come to the realization that they can no longer afford it either & they will start demanding it too. And their leadership will fall in line accordingly.

Once voters on both sides start demanding it, it'll get done.

Any imperfections in the system will get adjusted & dealt with over time. It'll probably never be perfect & there'll always be people trying & some succeeding in abusing the system, but as long as it's kept to a minimum we'll be better off than we are today.