Take Hillary Clinton for example (perceived as the champion of a healthcare reform). Insurance and Pharma have financed her campaign more than any other person, Democrat or Republican. You know the adage, "follow the money" ... there's a quid pro quo there somewhere.

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I know she has taken money from them, but I believe the large amount was due more to their perception that she was (once) favored to win, & they wanted to be in her good graces.

I'm sure they've contributed quite generously to McCain's campaign as well, & would contribute equally if not more generously to any other Republican.

Follow the money, yes. Absolutely. But remember, Hillary Clinton's entire campaign has been based primarily on healthcare reform & lowering the costs associated with it. Were she to get elected, then just forget everything she proposed the way Bush forgot all about "compassionate conservatism", all the claims about her being the biggest liar who ever walked the face of the Earth would be validated.

Some sources to back up prevous post:

A wealth of information can be obtained at Physicians for a National Healthcare Program (PNHP). From the above, you can download a 28 page detailed PDF by John P. Geyman entitled:

MYTHS AND MEMES ABOUT SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH INSURANCE IN THE UNITED STATES: A REBUTTAL TO CONSERVATIVE CLAIMS

For a more readable primer in lay language about the myths regarding universal healthcare, you can access:

The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States By John R. Battista, M.D. and Justine McCabe, Ph.D.

Snippet follows in response to Mudwhistle's assertion that there would be "6 months [wait] just to get a physical.":

Myth Three: Universal Health Care Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services

Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)

Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.

Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15% (emphasis mine)


Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

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I just polled. Turns out that 51% of the population would think it funny if I gave you an Atomic Wedgie.

Stand by.

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"Compassionate Conservatism"?!?! That is a stupid phrase. Conservatism is inherently compassionate. It is liberalism that is cruel for the sake of maintaining a constituency.

Yes, she'll definitely be for "market-based" solutions to healthcare - so in that sense, she'll be a liar and subsequently not a bit different from Bush.

One party, two rightwings.

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Eliminating the overhead costs/administrative costs of dealing with the insurance companies would save a ton of money. That and possibly reducing military expenditures, and dare I say, no more costly wars, and this country would have a functioning universal healthcare not-for-profit system tomorrow.

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thier 17% figure is complete bushwah, pun intended...so as a starting piont I am leary of this study...

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

In 2004 it was 15.7% of the civilian, noninstitutionalized population:

Overview of the Uninsured in the United States: An analysis of the 2005 Current Population Survey: Issue Brief

Those numbers have increased in the last few years.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

The study was done in 1999 (almost a decade ago) ... the main point by posting it, is the myths associated with the study. For a more detailed (but extraordinarily long read), try the PDF file in my post which is more recent and more relevant but highlights the main points of the study to which you refer.

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oh and human non myth number 1;
When something becomes free- its becomes overused.....the lines would form, bet on it. Ask the French. They have had issue with folks don’t seem to want to walk into an apothecary and buy a 3$ bottle of aspirin because its “free” if they go to the state clinic etc. In addition folks come in repeatedly with aliments that are easily treatable by themselves if they applied a little common sense.

And as I sdad, the whole money thing is a myth, we would pay a huge increase in taxes period, and I for one , and I think IF it were put put there without fudging the numbers, once know, what the average American taxpayer would be looking at in taxes, geuses what?

Sorry Charlie, and remember, who pays taxes here and who doesn’t. How much do you expect these folks to absorb? This isn’t just about the health care, theres a lot more to it than that. If the 20% og folks who pay 90% of the taxes here have to eat higher SSI costs and fund health care, in 20 years this place will be like some s. American country where in that 20-30% of the pop. Locks up their equity and has it traded everyday to stay ahead of inflation etc. , and creates zero wealth there after. No thx.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Imperator, you're ALREADY paying for the uninsured. Universal preventative care would cut your costs, not raise them.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Maybe I didn’t make myself clear, the basis on which they include folks or count them is not equitable. The numbers for instance regards 18-30, that whole grp. there in, you can throw out 80% of that %. Why?
Figure it out, lets see if we are interested in really debating this.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

dude, please. If you think that we won't take a hit, you're barking at the moon, pram.

and theres mopre to it than that, to cover 5-8% okay, I'll even go 10% of the pop. MAX, that really does have zip benifits/access nor CARE to, you want to lower my ability to get good care, and make me pay more for it to boot, no friggin thx.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

This isn't even in English.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Read up on it:

APHA: Universal Health Care Explained

http://www.nchc.org/materials/studie...%20booklet.pdf

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears