Doctors support universal health care: survey | Health | Reuters

So remind me again who thinks this is a bad idea............

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

Not me. I think it's disgraceful that we don't have an intelligent universal system in place that's the envy of the world. But, we value the profits of the pharma and insurance companies over the health of the citizenry. It's all about our priorities.

Too many people are making too much money to alter a thing. To me, it's just that simple.

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"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right." - Ashleigh Brilliant(?)
(Voting for None Of The Above, so far...)

Replace the word "we" with "The Republican party" & you've hit the nail on the head.

Universal Health Care is great for the doctors, because they'll get paid by the government and they can soak them.......but it's bad for the patient. Get ready for waiting lists of about 6 months just to get a physical.

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"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

And on what experience and/or research do you base these claims?

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I'm not defending the current state of the US healthcare system, but this ("universal healthcare") raises a rather morally perilous consideration:

To what degree is the health of others any person's responsibility/problem?

I address this question to you because you seem to be in favor of universal health care (which I am not, though I'm not a big fan of our current system by any means). In principle, a system of universal health care is unfair to the healthy. That is, if I have the good fortune to go through life healthier than the average person, I will pay in more than I take out, and am, in essence, being forced to pay for other people's health problems (which are probably not of my creation in any way).

Do you believe that health care is some kind of "right"?

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

IMHO, healthcare, at some level, is a fundamental right.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

The arguments of the person to whom you're responding aside, don't you think a survey of doctors on the matter has the potential for conflict of interest? There is no guarantee that any given doctor responding favors a universal system because it is better for the patients, as opposed to better for himself. I'm not saying this must be the case, but the possibility certainly exists.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

So who bears the responsibility?

If you're of the opinion that people have a "right" not to be killed, it doesn't place any burden on anyone else simply not to kill someone (bizarre hypothetical scenarios aside). But, if everyone has a "right" to health care, including someone without any sort of assets, then a burden is, by default, placed on other people to make good on this "right".

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Of course there will be some who are selfish. But, in my experience as a healthcare provider, a large number of doctors really do have their patients' best interests at heart. Universal preventative care would both save lives and save money while reducing suffering.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Yes, it is. I believe that we as a civilized society, as a nation of people, bear responsibility for the well-being of our fellow citizens. I know that many disagree, but that is my perspective.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

We're all paying for the healthcare of others anyway, but usually after their diseases are at more advanced stages. If everyone had access to healthcare including preventative screening, more people would have serious illnesses detected at earlier stages of development reducing the cost of treatment.

I'm more in favor of government subsidized health insurance in which people would pay approx. 5% of their annual gross income in premiums with anything over that subsidized. People making under say, $12,000/yr would pay nothing, & people with really high incomes would pay their entire premium because 5% of their income would be more than their premium anyway.

Ironically, a popular argument against nationalized health care is that it will impoverish doctors.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

Absolutely.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Personally I think the public health aspect should be the main driving force behind universal health care.
If we had a system that delivered preventive health care, especially the proper vaccines, many diseases could be eliminated from the population.
Of course this creates a problem of more relatively healthy older people with chronic conditions which cost more to treat, so the more successful a health care system is, the more it costs.
But this also shifts most of the cost to the care of older citizens, so it requires full participation to work.
Full participation is best achieved with a tax based system funding a single payer.

Ironically, the major driving force will probably be big employers, because socializing health care costs, reduces the cost of doing business.

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address