I'm not "religious" and have no ""religious" idea of life."

What I'm saying is who are we to decide we have the power or authority to not let another completely innocent human live out it's full life ? Just because it's in the very beginning stages of it's life, we seem to think that makes it Ok to kill it ?

Ridiculous.

We haven't the right to do so. There IS no such right. Anywhere.

Because a society appoints some misguided clowns to call judges and agrees to follow along with their decisions, doesn't make what these judges decide to tell us right.

This is STILL an issue of how we value life. Religion doesn't, by necessity, have anything to do with it.

Sure there is. It's a result of Roe V. Wade.

A woman has the right to an abortion.

You don't have to agree with it; Hell, you don't even have to like it. But that right exists, and it exists because the Supreme Court says it does.

All the whining in the world won't change that...

How is this a quantity vs, quality issue ?

This is a values and judgement issue. I'm certainly not encouraging every one to breed breed breed more more more. Actually I think most of us would do well to learn better self control. This would largely prevent the necessity of legal murder ie abortion.

The more out of control a population of people becomes, the bigger it's need for guidance and control. The bigger it's need for big stinking brother govt. daddy man.

Are you seeing how large and ridiculous our govt. has become ?

There's are reasons for that.

I love it when the pro-lifers have to start making up new, pretend phrases as if they mean anything.

Wrap your head around this: If it's legal, it's IMPOSSIBLE for it to be murder...

You like to say I'm "whining" for some reason. Doesn't concern me.

The supreme court was and still IS wrong.

Just like they'd be wrong if they made other forms of the murder of innocents legal.

Just because some stinker smendrick judges said it's a "right" doesn't make it right at all.

Whether it's right (as in "correct") or not is certainly a valid topic for debate.

But you said "the right" didn't exist.

On that note, you could not be more wrong. That right does exist...

Uhm .. just because some bloke on the internet (and I'll abstain from calling anyone a stinker) says it's wrong doesn't make it wrong at all. Of course, resorting to mere value judgment in order to argue such wrongness doesn't exactly help.

Here's the entire text of what I said:

---------------

Just because it's in the very beginning stages of it's life, we seem to think that makes it Ok to kill it ?

Ridiculous.

We haven't the right to do so. There IS no such right. Anywhere.

---------------

And as I also said, just because some boneheads in judges robes said:

"It's now your right to kill the innocent."

Does not make that truly a right. We haven't the right to do such a thing, I don't care what some judges said. They were wrong.

That our society accepted this as a "right" says more about us than it does anything else.

You can call it a "right" if you want. I'm calling it a disgustingly misguided wrong.

But you declaring it not a right makes it not a right? They, unlike you, have the power to enforce their idea of "rights". A "right" is only as good or as real as its ability to be enforced.

__________________
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

It's ability to be enforced is only as good as the willingness of a population of people to ACCEPT IT as a "right." That our society accepted this as a "right" says more about us than it does anything else.

We were willing to accept killing these unborn people. We were given a "right" to DO so even.

It is still not a right. It is a wrong.

If judges told us "It's your right to shoot your neighbor if he/she's making too much noise after 6:30 P.M." would we accept THAT as a "right" ?

Just because it became a "legal right" doesn't magically make it right OR make it a "right."

Some "rights" we have in this country are wrongs not "rights." Just because we can legally get away with it and our society accepts it does not make it right OR make it a "right."

The law has become an instrument of injustice. Especially in this case.

That's not true. I'm sure a lot of black people weren't readily accepting of forced slavery and segregation, but a fat lot of good it did them. Only ability to enforce them determines rights. Nothing more and nothing less. Anything else is just an expression of the way people wish things were with the word "right" attached to give it added emphasis.

And yet, in spite of your universal proclamation, it's happening everywhere as we speak. Your idea of rights seems not to have much weight.

Maybe in Texas.

Something being legal doesn't make it ethical. Something being legal probably makes it a "right" in that the government is the one in charge of rights and it is the most powerful guy on the block. And as for something "magically" being a right, that's the only way there's ever any such thing as rights. If you believe in God, and think that He grants rights, then I'd call that "magical". If you don't believe in God, a claiming you have a "right" to something is no different than saying you want something. The general response is, "great - who cares unless you have the means to claim it?"

Again, it doesn't make it ethical/moral, but it absolutely makes it a "right" since the government is the only body in a position to enumerate and grant rights. You offer the opinion that it isn't a "right". You have your keyboard. The government offers the opinion that it is a "right". They have tanks and nukes. No offense, but your opinion doesn't matter in the face of that.

You could always take up with the Montana militia or engage in espionage against the man, I suppose. If one of their coups goes through, then you might be in a position where you opinion on rights matters more than once a year at the ballot box, indirectly.

__________________
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Their guns and tanks aren't impressive when what they're selling are wrongs, not rights.

When enough people in America decide it's time to wipe out the wrongs of our "big boss daddy man" govt. I'll join in fighting.

Right now enough of us are fat, dumb, apathetic and happy taking whatever comes from our so called "leaders."

Things do change though.

Always.

Ahh, advocating the violent overthrow of our government?

Interesting choice.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Well, before you join the fight against the Infidels to do Alah's bidding, why don't you consider that here in America, the best way to get the government to enumerate the rights that you want enumerated is through doing your civic duty of voting and lobbying your representatives. It's better than the domestic terrorism that you suddenly seem all right with and it's also better than trying to "do" something by going on the internet and making political correctness aficionados proud by inventing and shuffling terms that sound impressive but have no effect on reality. It's not all or nothing - you don't have to choose between treason and dealing in pure fiction.

__________________
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

It will happen internally OR externally eventually if we keep ambling down the path we've allowed our "leaders" to put us on.

Not advocating it. Just pointing out a very likely future event.