[quote=Norrin Radd;1216940]If you feel your doctor isn't sympathetic to your ideas, then find a different one.

Hours? I'm a vetrinary pathologist, doing a PhD in virology and immunology. I have a decidedly veterinary slant (rather than human medicine), but since my topic is now Hep E virus, which is primarily of interest as a zoonotic human pathogen I do read the human literature.
VAs far as I'm aware, VAERS functions fine for what it is; which is a reporting system for any post-vaccine event. Not all of which are related to the vaccination (though many undoubtably are).

There are 11.4 adverse reprots per 100,000 doses administered. Most of these fall in the category of transient fever or local inflammation (MMWR Surveill Summ. 2003 Jan 24;52(1):1-24.)

Look; it is certianly heartbraking when something bad happens to any child, but this isn't a perfect world. At the individual level the statistics are meaningless; it is certianly no comfort to be told that what happened is rare when it happens to you. It's terrible to be looking back and thinking 'if only I hadn't done that', but unless you have a known reason *not* to, like an allergy to a vaccine component, ot a previous concerning reaction, then the best anyone can do is play the odds. Vaccines aren't, and will never be perfectly safe, but we use them because the alternative is nursing our children through a series of childhood disease that used to kill or cripple.
Pertussis used to be a leading cause of infant death. Now it's practically unheard of, except in areas where a significant portion of the population does not vaccinate. Here's an example, since we're playing that game: ERNursey - An ER Nurse's Blog: Whooping Cough

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"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
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Exactly.

Hi Otter long time no see.

You've been busy with your studies I assume. Had a lot of things to run past you.. now maybe I will :-)

Eh, yeah. My previous advisor went to another university, but I'm here primarily as a resident, so I couldn't go with her. Changed my project, committee, everything.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
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Well keep up the work. I could have gone into a field like that but ..

.. well, I don't know if I could do that kind of work. Hate to admit it but squeemish. Could never even be in phlebotomy or something like that

[quote=Otter;1216990]A good example of why vaccines are still important.

However, there are still many problems. Concerning how poorly many drugs are tested, the revolving door policy at the FDA and how many drugs have been pulled off the market after they were "approved", how can any THINKING PERSON just accept what we are told by the "establishment."

The Rotovirus vaccine is a perfect example of how easily poor research can lead to health problems.

Seen this piece on the HPV vaccine?

Vaccine Safety Group Releases GARDASIL Reaction Report

How about this piece?

Perhaps any attempt at prevention would be a good bet if the vaccine were harmless, but it's not. Today there are more reports of adverse reactions from the vaccine than there are reported cases of the disease in children. Data created by the government’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) in 1996 confirm 872 serious adverse events in children under 14 years of age who had been injected with Hepatitis B vaccine. These kids were either taken to an emergency room, had life-threatening health problems, were hospitalized, or were disabled following the vaccination. 214 had the Hepatitis B vaccine alone, and the rest received it in combination with other vaccines. 48 kids died after being injected with Hepatitis B vaccine in 1996, and 13 of them had received the Hepatitis B vaccine alone just before they died. In contrast, in 1996 only 279 cases of Hepatitis B disease were reported in children under age 14.

The World Health Organization only recommends infant vaccination for Hepatitis B in areas where carrier prevalence is 2 percent or greater. This does not apply to the U.S., except for certain ethnic groups in Alaska. But current U.S. health policy is based on an exaggerated perception of the prevalence of Hepatitis B, and here vaccination is required for every newborn.

Our government has established the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to report vaccine reactions. Many believe that only 10 percent of the adverse reactions are reported, however, as reporting is not mandated by law.

Even with only 10 percent of the problems being reported, there were nearly 25,000 VAERS Hepatitis B reports from July 1990 to October 31, 1998, showing 439 deaths and 9673 serious reactions involving emergency room visits, hospitalization, disablement or death.

Hepatitis B Vaccination for Newborns: Good Intentions, Bad Science, Worse Policy

With your medical knowledge, perhaps you could let me know if you can find any information which counters the claims made in the piece above. I have not verified the numbers yet, as it has been almost 10 years since I did most of my research on vaccines. It is obvious there is a lot more information since I did the bulk of my research.

I look forward to hearing someone like you, who is in the medical field, comment on this information.

[quote=Norrin Radd;1217026]I would never advocate that someone should just accept what they are told, whether it's by some perceived "establishment" or the sometimes equally poorly thought out "antiestablishment" position.

But I'm frustrated with the articles you posted; maybe I'm missing it, but when they say things like that there were 385 reported adverse reactions, without also including how many doses were given, the data are meaningless; 385 ot of 1000? out of 100,000? It does matter. It appears that Guardasil shouldn't be administered with other vaccines, and in fact I think that it would be better if *all* vaccines were administered one at a time, but who's going to bring their kid in every month for a different vaccine? You have to balance what is ideal with what people can and will actually do. My daughter got that vaccine, but not at the same time as any others.
And not all vaccines that look ok in the trial phase will turn out to be good. Releasing any product for public consumption is essentially the final, largest clinical trial ever, and we will always see things we didn't see in the more controlled, smaller studies. That's why we have post-marketing followup.

And unfortunately not every researcher is good at what they do, but the poor ones do eventually get weeded out. Not always before making a mess in public, though. I do think that companies have become more cautious, and more apt to listen when their scientists tell them a product may have a problem, though, since no one wants to have the next Vioxx.

My concern with vaccines is that some organisations paint them all with the same brush, and really would like to see them stopped altogether. This is a bad idea, since right now, someone who is, say allergic to one vaccine, can reasonably expect not to encounter the disease, since enough of teh population around them is portected. Once people stop vaccinating, taht will no longer be true, and we *will* see outbreaks of what should be 19th century relic diseases. And many more kids will be harmed.

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please click and help the eggs hatch!

"The only abnormality is the incapacity to love"
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[quote=Otter;1217064]Otter,

thanks for the reply.

I apologize, but I just don't have the energy to go through all of this again. I do not blame you for not liking the sources I posted, as I am just too tired to sift through thousands of pages to find better ones. I know the info is out there, I have seen it, but it is up to each of us to do our own research. I do not have any children, yet I have done more reading on vaccines than over 90% of parents who allow their children to get vaccinated. Probably more like 99%, but it doesn't really matter.

Luckily there are some people out there, credible people, who are starting to question the safety of all the child vaccines. It is not about stopping vaccinations, it is about making them safer. I still belive the schedules need to be reevaluated, like I already mentioned.

Thanks for your time.