No, you're not a pathetic loser, but you aren't doing a very good job of explaining why people should share your concerns. It's your responsibility to pique people's interest and blaming them for not responding as you want them to isn't going to accomplish anything positive.

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Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?

--Hunter S. Thompson

Norrin, of course you can provide evidence to support your claims, but at this point it would be completely premature because I can't for the life of me even tell what your claim IS.

Please explain that first. Then I'll tell you whether I agree or not, and why. Then, if you want, present evidence to convince me that I should agree. But at this point, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be agreeing TO!

Well, that is something I can work on.

I am not a very good writer. I am just an average guy who had the time to do a lot of research. Thousands of hours, on dozens of topics.

This is what I am good at. I am a good sifter. I can sift information with the best of them.

While I hit my peak around 2002, researching 25-30 hours a week, I was close to an expert at researching on the net. Since then I have become a little rusty and have not been able to find specific information as quickly as I once did.

Still, what I do best is sift information.

I try to share what I have learned, but I am constantly attacked, as is the information I post, by people who are not even willing to read the information. They just attack.

When i first started telling people about the National Emergency the USA has been in since 1933, no one believed me. I had to prove it to them. Sources are constantly attacked, even if the information is verifiable.

When I first posted the Senate report titled "Is Military Research Hazardous to Veteran's Health", the info was questioned for it's authenticity. In the old days, the Senate report was only available from one site. Not it is posted at numerous sites. I have hundreds of pieces of information questioned, but there have only been a few times when I could not prove the authenticity of what I posted. People often look at a website and dismiss anything from that site, without looking at the "original" source. Where information is posted is irrelevant. TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.

What matters is the "original" source and if the information can be verified. This is something many people will never flipping get.

I am so stringent on my sources, few so-called journalists do a better job then I do of verifying sources.

So, I am not good at presenting the information I wish to share. That is constructive criticism and I will try to work on that, but what is it I have to do?

Do I have to condense 700 page books down to 2 paragraphs?

That is impossible.

If you have suggestions, please share them.

There is an invisible government.

There are several groups, all interconnected, which control the US government. Not 100% control, but enough control to further their goals.

Not only do they control the government, but they have incredible influence over the media and education.

I know my posts are very often too long.

I know people have limited free time and don't want to spend too much time reading a single post.

HOWEVER........

It is very difficult to decide what to exclude from a post.

Take the tax free foundations, for an example.

Rene Wormser wrote a book on the subject, it is 412 pages long.

There are dozens of important excerpts from that book.

Then there is also the information from Norman Dodd's testimony and his interview with Griffin.

To do a really good post on the Foundations and their influence on government would take many links.

How about Bovine Growth Hormone?

You have the people at the FDA who lost their job trying to do the right thing. You have two news reporters who were fired for trying to do the right thing. You have 5 doctors from Canada who claim they were pressured into approving rBGH and were even offered bribes, then they were hit with a gag order and several of these doctors were punished.

This is just 3 parts to the puzzle. There are many more. Which parts do I include and which parts do I exclude?

All the pieces are very important.

When looking at a puzzle, you need at least MOST of the pieces, if you want to see what the picture is. You simply can't see shit with only one or two puzzle pieces.

Anyways, thanks for the advice, I will try to be more concise in the future and I will try to make my posts shorter.

We've been talking about this "invisible government" over on the other thread. Specifically as regards education, what in your opinion is the agenda of the people you're talking about? You mentioned earlier something about "rewriting American history." It is certainly true that U.S. history as taught in school today is very different from the way it was taught decades ago. For example, there was a time when the brutality inflicted on the American Indians was not covered at all when discussing westward expansion, and when schools in the south glossed over the issue of slavery. Education today is a lot less uncritically patriotic than it used to be. Is this the sort of thing you're talking about? On the face of it, this change seems to me to be a good one; how does it serve the agenda of the "invisible government" you're talking about? Or do you mean something else?

The change I am talking about is the change in focus away from the founding fathers beliefs in individual liberty and a focus on collectivism.

Today children are taught to be "children of the world."

There is an example, in the documentary I posted several pages back, that discusses a test that was taken in PA.

One of the kids who took this test went home and told his mom that they had to take this test and that it was very strange. The mother tried to get a copy of the test, so she could see the questions and the school said no.

After that she tried to sue to get a copy of the test.

Our kids are intentionally being dumbed down.

Dewey's philosophies have been adopted and these philosophies are what is now driving education.....

John Dewey stated in 1899: "Children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming where everyone is interdependent."

Dewey also wrote...

"I believe, therefore, that the true center of correlation on the school subjects is not science, nor literature, nor history, nor geography, but the child's own social activities.”

These philosophies have moved education from "traditional" education, to outcome based education..

All kids are now required to meet goals at the same time, before the class can move forward. Smarter kids are often giving busy work, in order to give slower kids time to learn the same information.

Do you know the goals of OBE?

Do you know where the goals came from?

Documentaries.WS: Content / Documentaries & Videos / Who Controls Our Children ? (Public Education Dumb Down Kids Deliberately) 60 Minutes

The above documentary is an hour long. If you are truly interested in learning about all of this, it is a great starting point.

"COLLECTIVISM" is now the main goal of OBE. You are not supposed to question the "norms" of society. You are not supposed to think like an individual. School is not about teaching information, it is about molding attitudes and perceptions.

The test given until 1989 was called the EQA. This is the test a mother tried to get a copy of and it took her a while before she could get a copy. She then showed that this test was actually a psychological test and the courts agreed, so Pennsylvania stopped the test. The EQA has now been revised, but it is still basically the same test, just it asks more questions on subjects.

I urge you to watch the above documentary.

It is one single hour out of your life.

I would really be interested in your opinion on this piece, if you are willing to watch it.

I agree that there have been some positive changes over the years but my problem with compulsory education is that it is about socialization rather than instilling critical thinking skills. People are taught to be subservient to authority, which is completely antithetical to the development of the type of citizenry that a genuine democracy requires.

Is it any wonder then that our politics is infected with corruption and that monied interests are the only ones to gain a fair hearing? Well, no, no surprise at all, and the only way to get this turned around would be to reorient education.

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Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?

--Hunter S. Thompson

I always suspected that the state boards of education promoted mediocrity - it's better to feel good than to think. When the goal is to produce happy worker bees, collective mediocrity follows but the long term outcome will be a societal fall.

No wonder Brave New World is not required reading material in school.

[edit] No one is assessing the assessors. We need to ... then tar and feather them. [/edit]

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Great video, Norrin!

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Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?

--Hunter S. Thompson

Ain't it a gem? Good find, Norrin, and thanks.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Thank you and POGO for watching the documentary.

I know I post a ton of links and I know that there is no one who has time to click on all of them, but I was hoping someone would at least watch this video.

It is a little dry, but Peg does a great job explaining how OBE works, what it's goals are and how the control has come down from the FEDGOV by using education funds to blackmail schools into implementing OBE.

I believe this video is one of the most valuable pieces of information I have ever found, for people who still believe in liberty.

Academics are taking a back seat to behavior modification.

Most of it...had to go to work, so I missed the last 15 minutes.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Norrin, I'm in the process of listening to that video you linked. I have the following criticism of it:

1) The presenter confuses outcome based education (OBE) with social-goal education. The two are not identical. OBE is a method of teaching which can be used with any curriculum, while social-goal education is a specific curriculum.

2) The implication is given that social-goal education has replaced academic education. Having recently had two children graduate from high school, I know from personal experience that this is not the case; that there is plenty of emphasis on ordinary academic studies in our schools, and hence the standardized social-goal tests that she refers to give a misimpression of education at this time.

3) If the purpose of this change in our education methods -- to the extent that it is real at all -- is to "dumb down kids deliberately, making zombie-like people who don't ask any questions but just follow orders," then based on the behavior of young people today, it has been a dismal failure by its own terms.

Now, let me consider the things you said to me in your last post.

What do you mean by "collectivism"? Are you referring to something economic, or something else? If you mean something economic, then my response is that "collectivism" and "individual liberty" are not incompatible. If you mean something more basic, like cogwheel obedience to authority, then my response is that if that's the goal, it has failed miserably.

Yesterday they were taught to be American chauvinists. Do you think that was better? There is always a socialization content in public education; that specific change in our curriculum does not bother me, in fact I approve. If, as you suggested, this was being emphasized instead of academic achievement, then I would have a problem, but as I stated I know from personal family experience that this is not the case.

Norrin, as a matter of principle I am going to refuse to answer questions of this nature. If you want to say something about OBE, say it. Don't grill.

As I said, having recently had two daughters graduate from high school, I know for myself that the statement "school is not about teaching information" is untrue. As I said also, if the goal was to produce pepole who "don't think like individuals," then it has been a dismal failure.

So where does she claim that the two are one and the same?



I think you're misrepresenting what she's alleging, as she does not state that academics has been entirely phased out.



Dismal failure, eh?

Yeah, our "democracy" just couldn't be any more vibrant, now could it.

__________________
Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?

--Hunter S. Thompson